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Family
Marriage: Children:
  1. Maud De Grey: Birth: 1279 in Wilton Castle, Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, England.

  2. Henry De Grey: Birth: 28 Oct 1281 in Wilton, Herefordshire, England. Death: Abt 10 Dec 1342 in Wilton, Herefordshire, England

  3. Joan De Grey: Birth: 1288 in Drayton Bassett, Staffordshire, England. Death: 5 Apr 1353 in Bassett, Gloucestershire, , England

  4. Roger De Grey: Birth: 1290 in Wilton Castle, Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire, England. Death: 6 Mar 1353 in Denbighshire, Wales

  5. Person Not Viewable


Sources
1. Title:   Public Member Trees
Page:   Database online.
Note:   Ancestry.com, Public Member Trees (Provo, UT, USA, Ancestry
Publication:   Name: Ancestry.com Operations Inc; Location: Provo, UT, USA; Date: 2006;
Author:   Ancestry.com
Name:   www.ancestry.com
Givenname:   www.ancestry.com
RepositoryId:   R601
Addressname:   www.ancestry.com
Address:   www.ancestry.com
Note continued:   .com Operations Inc, 2006).
Link:   http://www.ancestry.com
Link:   http://www.ancestry.com
Link:   http://www.ancestry.com
2. Title:   Public Member Trees
Page:   Database online.
Note:   Ancestry.com, Public Member Trees (Provo, UT, USA, Ancestry
Publication:   Name: Ancestry.com Operations Inc; Location: Provo, UT, USA; Date: 2006;
Author:   Ancestry.com
Name:   www.ancestry.com
Givenname:   www.ancestry.com
RepositoryId:   R601
Addressname:   www.ancestry.com
Address:   www.ancestry.com
Note continued:   .com Operations Inc, 2006).
Link:   http://www.ancestry.com
Link:   http://www.ancestry.com
Link:   http://www.ancestry.com

Notes
a. Note:   NI3578
Note:   NOTE: The two wives of John Grey indicated below in BP & CP have been disproved as mothers by Douglas Richardson. I leave the references & wives for historical purposes (Douglas Richardson leaves open the possibility that one or both were actually wives of John), but have changed the children to be of Eleanor de Bohun. Douglas Richardson specifically states that all three of these children's mother was Maud de Vernun. Originally Roger was son of Maud Basset, Henry & Joan children of Anne Ferrers. ----------------------------------------- John de Grey, 2nd Lord (Baron) Grey (of Wilton); born c1268; had granted 1311 Ruthin Castle to himself for life then to his younger son Roger; at Battle of Bannockburn 1314; Justiciar of North Wales Feb 1314/5; married 1st allegedly Anne, daughter of Sir William Ferrers, of Groby, Leics, and had issue; married 2nd Maud, allegedly daughter of Sir Ralph Basset, of Drayton, Staffs, and died 28 Oct 1323. [Burke's Peerage] ----------------------------------------- GREY (of Wilton or of Shirland) BARONY BY WRIT. II. 1308. 2. John (de Grey), Lord Grey (of Wilton), s. and h., aged 40 and more at his father's death. On 5 May 1308 he had livery of his father's lands, his homage being respited, the escheator South of Trent being ordered to take his fealty.(a174) By his charter, dated 7 Apr. 1310, he founded a collegiate church at Ruthin.(b174) On 18 Nov. 1311 he had licence to convey the castle of Ruthin, the cantred of Dyffryn Clwyd, and the manor of Rushton, co. Chester, to himself for life, with rem. to Roger his son in tail general, rem. to his own right heirs.(c174) He was at the battle of Bannockburn, 24 June 1314.(d174) On 19 Feb. 1314/5 he was appointed Justiciar of North Wales and Keeper of the King's castles and lands in those parts, during pleasure: his successor, Roger de Mortemer of Chirk, was appointed, 23 Nov. 1316.(e174) He was sum. for Military Service from 21 June (1308) 1 Edw. II to 3 Apr. (1323) 16 Edw. II, to Councils from 8 Jan. (1308/9) 2 Edw. II to 30 May (1324) 17 Edw. II, and to Parl. from 4 Mar. (1308/9) 2 Edw. II to 18 Sep. (1322) 16 Edw. II, by writs directed _Johanni de Grey_.(f174) He accompanied the King to France in June 1320, and to Scotland in Aug. 1322.(g174) He m., 1stly (it is said), Anne, da. of Sir William de Ferrers, of Groby, co. Leicester, by his 1st wife, Anne, da. of Sir Hugh le Despenser, of Ryhall, Rutland, Loughborough, co. Leicester, Parlington, co. York, &c. He m., 2ndly, Maud, who is said to have been daughter of Sir Ralph Basset, of Drayton, co. Stafford, by Margaret, da. of Sir Roger de Somery, of Dudley, co. Worcester. He d. 28 Oct.,(h174) and was bur. circa 18 Nov. 1323.(i174) (a174) _Fine Roll_, 1 Edw. II, m. 3. (b174) "Pro animabus serenissimi principis et recordacionis inclite domini Edwardi filii Regis Henrici quondam Regis Anglie domine Alianore quondam Regine Anglie consortisque Regis Edwardi antedicti domini Reginaldi de Grey predicti Matildis consortis due dudum et matris nostre ac progenitorum nostrorum pro anima quoque nostra Matildis uxoris nostre omnium liberorum parentum et amicorum nostrorum." (_Patent Roll_, 8 Edw. II, p. 1, m. 20). (c174) _Patent Roll_, 5 Edw. II, p. 1, m. 10. (d174) _Scottish Roll_, 7 Edw. II, m. 3. (e174) _Fine Rolls_, 8 Edw. II, m. 8; 10 Edw. II, m. 8. (f174) The Commissioners appointed, 31 Oct. 1322, in co. Bucks, returned that "Mons. Johan de Grey est Baron nostre Seignur le Roy et ad les armes et passe le age de ceissaunt aunz." (Parliamentary Writs_, vol. ii, part ii, p. 609). (g174) _Patent Rolls_, 13 Edw. II, mm. 5, 2; 16 Edw. II, p. 1, m. 29. (h174) In an order to the Exchequer, 10 Mar. 1327 (_Close Roll_), relating to his son Henry, it is recited that John, father of Henry, d. at the feast of SS. Simon and Jude in the 17th year of the late King?s reign. (i) Licence, 18 Nov. 1323, for Richard de Grey of Codnor to take 20 does in the woods, parks and chases late of John de Grey of Ruthyn, in England and Wales (in the King?s hand by reason of his death), for burying of the body of the said John, and to take fish in fisheries of said John for said occasion (_Cal. Patent Rolls_). ?Johannes de Grey.? Writs of _diem cl. ext._ 26, 27 and 28 Dec. 17 Edw. II. Inq., cos. Gloucester, Hereford, 4 and 8 Jan. 1323/4. ?Et dicunt quod Henricus de Grey filius predicti Johannis de Grey est propinquior heres ejusdem Johannis Et quod dictus Henricus fuit etatis xlj [xlij-_co. Gloucster_] annorum ad festum Apostolorum Simonis et Jude ultimo preteritum.? Inc., cos. Derby, Cambridge, Hunts, Bucks, Lincoln, Herts, Beds, (2), Leicester, Essex (2), Wilts, and North Wales, Thursday before St. Thomas the Martyr [27 Dec.] 1323, 13, 13 Jan. 1, 1, 2, 9, 10 Feb., Monday before St. Valentine [12 Feb.], 23, 24, Feb., Sunday after St. Peter _in cathedra_ [25 Feb.] 1323/4, and 31 Dec. 1323. He held the manors of Eaton, Waterhall, and Easton Grey, by serjeanty, of the King in chief, Purleigh, 1/3 fee, of the King in chief, and Shirland, 1 fee, of Richard de Grey [of Codnor]. Heir Henry his son, aged 30 and more, or 40 and more. He held for life, with rem. to Roger his son, in tail general, by divers fines and enfeoffments, the castle of Ruthin, the cantred of Dyffry Clwyd, 3 fees, of the King in chief; and the manors of Great Brickhill, Snellson, Hemingford, Yelling, Thurleigh, Wrest, Brogborough, &c., of others than the King. (Ch. _Inq. p. m._, Edw. II, file 82, no. 9: Exch. _Inq. p. m., Enrolments_, no. 11). The escheators rendered the account from 26 Dec. 17 Edw. II, the date of the writ. (_Escheators? Enrolled Accounts_, L.T.R., no. 1, mm. 1 d, 11). [Ref: CP VI:173-4] For precise source refs, p. 174 begins ?South of Trent? -------------------------------------------- In a message on SGM (soc.genealogy.medieval) from Douglas Richardson on 11 Jan 2002: Dear Newsgroup ~ In the wake of the new discovery of Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery de Bohun, new attention has been turned to the baronial families of Verdun and Bohun. As indicated by Complete Peerage, Theobald de Verdun's step-mother, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, is thought to have been a Bohun, she having sealed with those arms as reported by Complete Peerage sub Verdun. Chris Philips reported his findings on this matter in a post today. As it turns out, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, does in fact appear to have been a Bohun. My research indicates that Eleanor evidently had as her maritagium the manor of Debden, Essex (a Bohun manor), which property she in turn conveyed as a widow in 1275/6 to John de Grey, of Wilton, co. Hereford, and his wife, Maud. The fine conveying this property is found in Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, pg. 13. At his death years later, John de Grey is stated to have held the manor of Debden of Eleanor de Verdun by the service of a rose, the standard service for property granted in marriage in this period (see Cal. IPM, vol. 6, pg. 311). As such, it seems rather clear that John de Grey's wife, Maud, was the daughter of John de Verdun, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun. We can be reasonably certain that Maud de Grey was Eleanor de Verdun's daughter, as Eleanor being a Bohun surely had the manor of Debden in marriage, and in turn passed it along to her daughter, Maud. In this time period, a woman's maritagium almost always fell to her descendants, unless she happened to be childless, when she sometimes conveyed it away to strangers. In Eleanor's case, we know that she had several other male children, so the odds that she would convey her maritagium to the Grey family without there being a kinship is virtually slim to none. Also, it appears that John de Grey and his wife, Maud, were small children at the time of Eleanor de Verdun's fine. Complete Peerage indicates that John de Grey was born about 1268 (he being aged 40 at his father's death in 1308). Eleanor de Verdun's other known child, Humphrey, was born in 1267. It would be odd for Eleanor to convey her property to children, unless of course one of the parties was her own child. Following John de Grey's death, the manor of Debden, Essex was in turn held by John and Maud de Grey's son and heir, Henry de Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 8, pg. 261), as well as by a later Henry Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 17, pg. 253). At the later Henry de Grey's death, he is stated to hold the manor of "Weldebernys" in Debden of the Countess of Hereford (a Bohun descendant). The passage of this manor down to John de Grey's son, Henry, and thence to his heirs gives evidence that Henry was in fact the son of John de Grey's wife, Maud de Verdun. These new discoveries causes a ripple of corrections for Complete Peerage as well as for the Plantagenet Ancestry manuscript. For starters, it now appears that John de Grey had but one wife, Maud de Verdun, not two as claimed by Complete Peerage. Also, it appears Maud de Verdun was the mother of all of John de Grey's children, presumably including Iseult Saint Pierre, living 1343, whose existence and identity I mentioned in a post this past week. As soon as I have time, I will post copies of the specifics of the fines and inquisitions which show the links between the Bohun, Verdun, and Grey families. I will also post a list of the colonial immigrants who descend from this Bohun-Verdun-Grey combination. I haven't checked my lists yet, but I'm sure this set of discoveries will change many people's charts here on the newsgroup. Perhaps if John Ravilious has a moment, he can post a tabular pedigree chart showing the descent. As for the identity of parentage of Eleanor de Bohun, Complete Peerage indicates that she married before 1267 to John de Verdun, and that they had a son, Humphrey de Verdun, born in 1267. If we assume that Eleanor was around 20 at the time of marriage, say 1265, the chronology would place Eleanor, born say 1245, as a hitherto unknown daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (died 1275), by his 2nd wife, Maud de Avenbury. The date of the marriage of Earl Humphrey and Maud de Avenbury is not known, but presumably it was soon after the death of his 1st wife, Maud of Eu, which took place in 1241. Earl Humphrey and Maud are known to have had children, but no modern descendants have been found for this couple. If anyone has any further particulars which would shed additional light on this matter, I would appreciate hearing from them at my e-mail address below. In closing, I wish to thank John Ravilious, Chris Phillips and Cristopher Nash for their continued helpful posts on the Mortimer, Verdun, Bohun and Grey families. Yes, answers can be found to ancient questions. Collegiality is the one of the keys to finding those answers. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry AT msn.com ----------------------------------------------------- In a message on SGM (soc.genealogy.medieval) from Douglas Richardson on 17 Jan 2002: Dear Newsgroup ~ Yesterday I spent further time researching the published literature regarding the topic of the marriages of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton (died 1323). My research indicates that the original source for John de Grey's two marriages to Anne de Ferrers and Maud Basset is the 1619 Visitation of Leicester, published in 1870, as Harleian Society Publications, vol. 2, pg. 74. As best I can determine, this particular visitation is wildly inaccurate. Out of five marriages reported for various Lord Greys of Wilton in this pedigree, I can only document one of them. Of the other four, evidence exists to prove that one is incorrect, one is unlikely, and two probably never took place. Moreover, the pedigree overlooked John de Grey's marriage to Maud de Verdun, for which marriage I found solid evidence this past week. Needless to say, as a general rule, visitations are usually more accurate than this. I found all published sources I consulted to have followed the 1619 Visitation of Leicester in lockstep, with one exception. The exception was Thomas Blore's History and Antiquities of the County of Rutland, published 1811, pp. 164-165. Following the 1619 Visitation of Leicester, Blore stated John de Grey married (1st) Anne de Ferrers, by whom he had his eldest son, Henry (ancestor of the later Lords Grey of Wilton). He varied from the visitation when he stated that John de Grey married (2nd) "Matilda, daughter of John de Verdun, Constable of Ireland," by whom he had his younger son, Roger (ancestor of the later Lords Grey of Ruthin). Unfortunately, Blore gave no sources for his Grey pedigree, so it is unknown where he found a record of John de Grey's marriage to Maud de Verdun. Blore withstanding, it appears that Maud de Verdun was the mother of at least three of John de Grey's children, they being both sons, Henry and Roger (who reportedly shared their mother's maritagium at Debden, Essex), and at least one daughter, Joan, wife of Ralph Basset. I find no evidence whatsoever that John de Grey was ever married to an Anne de Ferrers. Beyond this, William Harvey's History and Antiquities of the Hundred of Willey, pg. 318, states that there is a pedigree of the Grey family found in Harl. MS. 110, fo. 31, with a shield of 16 quarters, as follows: 1 Grey, 2 Glanvile, 3 Fitzhugh, 4 Longchamp, 5 De la vach, 6 Grey, 7 Hastings, 8 Cantilupe, 9 Scote, 10 Bruse, 11 Brewer, 12 Valence, 13 Manchany, 14 Marshall, 15 Fitzosbert, 16 Hastings. I have not seen this particular pedigree but it may well worth someone's time to examine. It should be available at the British Library in the London area. This pedigree appears to be different from the 1619 Visitation of Leicester, as the 1619 pedigree provided only eight arms in the Grey quarterings, not sixteen. Lastly, regarding the terminology, "it is said," the late Dr. David Faris told me that those words are used in Complete Peerage when the sole source for a marriage is a visitation pedigree, for whom no independant verification has been found. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry AT msn.com -------------------------- John 2nd Baron de Grey , of Wilton GREY, JOHN, de, second Baron Grey of Wilton (1268-1323), was the grandson of John de Grey (d. 1266), and the son of Reginald de Grey, the first lord Grey of Wilton. The father, having been justice of Chester, received in 1282 a grant of the castle of Ruthin, with cantreds of Duffryn Clwyd and Englefield (Tegeingl), in the marches of North Wales; married Maud, daughter and heiress of Henry de Longchamp of Wilton; was summoned to parliament in 1297; and died in 1308. John had already been actively engageed in public life some years before his father's death. His acts are easily confused with those of his namesake, John de Grey of Rotherfield (d. 1312). He was, however, vice-justice of Chester in 1296 and 1297 (Welsh Records in _Thirty-first Report of Deputy-keeper of Records_, p. 202). In consideration of the son's good services to the crown Edward I remitted part of a debt which in 1306 Reginald the father owed to the king (_Rolls of Parliament_, 199). John de Grey was first summoned to parliament on 9 June 1309. He had not yet become a prominent partisan when in March 1310 he was appointed one of the lords ordainers (Stubbs, _Chron. Edward I and II_, ii. 37; cf. _Const. Hist._ ii. 328). His continued hostility to the court is shown by his being one of the permanent council nominated in 1318 to keep Edward II in check as the result of Lancaster's triumph. He was, however, constantly acting against the Scots, and seems to have shown some activity in enrolling foot soldiers from his Welsh estates. On 15 Feb. 1315 he was also appointed justice of North Wales and constable of Carnarvon Castle (Breese, _Calendars of Gwynedd_, p. 125). In 1316 he was ordered to raise all the forces he could to put down the insurrection of Llewelyn Bren. In 1320 he was a conservator of the peace for Bedfordshire. In 1322, when the final struggle between Edward II and Lancaster broke out, Grey seems to have abandoned his old associates for the royal cause. He was commanded to raise troops in Wales and join the royal muster at Coventry, and also sat in the parliament at York which consumated the king's triumph. He complained, however, that the Welsh tenants of the king had attacked Ruthin, plundered himself and the townsfolk, and almost succeeded in burning the town (_Rolls of Parliament_, i. 397 b). Grey died in 1323. He is said to have married twice. His first wife was Anne, daughter of William Ferrers, lord of Groby, by whom he left a son named Henry, forty years old at his father's death, who became the ancestor of the Lords Grey de Wilton. By a second wife, Maud, daughter of Ralph, lord Basset of Drayton, he left a son, Roger de Grey, the ancestor of the Lords Grey of Ruthin. [Dugdale's Baronage, i. 713; Collins's Peerage, ii. 509-10, ed. 1779; Nicolas's Historic Peerage, p. 228; Parliamentary Writs. ii. iii. 950-1; Rolls of Parliament, vol. i.; Rymer's F?dera, vols. i. ii., Record edit.; Stubbs's Chroncles of Edward I and II (Rolls Ser.)] T. F. T.* [Ref: DNB, Editors, Leslie Stephen & Sidney Lee, MacMillan Co, London & Smith, Elder & Co., NY, 1908, vol. viii, pp. 634-5] * Prof. Thomas Frederick Tout, author of this article. Regards, Curt RESEARCH NOTES: 2nd Lord Grey of Wilton, of Barony cr 1290 [Ref: CP VI p173] Lord Grey of Wilton and Ruthin [Ref: CP II p3] Lord Grey of Wilton [Ref: CP VI p132f] 2nd. Baron Grey Of Wilton ----------------------------- BIRTH DATE 1258 PLAC Wilton, Herfordshire, England DEATH 28 Oct 1323 U.S. President's 13-Great Grandfather. HRH Charles's 17-Great Grandfather. PM Churchill's 17-Great Grandfather. Lady Diana's 18-Great Grandfather. HRH Albert II's 20-Great Grandfather. `Osawatomie' Brown's 16-Great Grandfather. Poss. my 20-Great Grandfather. poss. Wives/Partners: Maude (Maud) BASSET ; Anne (Lady) FERRERS ; Maud de VERDUN ; Maud de VERDUN q.v. Children: Roger (Rodger John) de GREY ; Henry de WILTON (de GREY) ; Iseult de GREY Possible Child: Joan (de) GREY
b. Note:   BI3578
Note:   Sources for this Information: date: age 40+ in 1308 [Ref: CP VI p173], parents: [Ref: CP VI p132f, CP VI p173]
c. Note:   DI3578
Note:   Sources for this Information: date: [Ref: CP VI p173] 1323 [Ref: CP VI p132f, Weis AR7 #93A]


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