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Note: "OF FLANDERS" BIBLIOGRAPHY: Collin, Frederic, Descendants of Lambert de Fouron. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 4/5/2005-120938. Subject: Re: Louvain- Ponthieu link ?. Available at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/2005-04/1112728178. Author address: frederic dot collin at lathuy dot com. Moriarty, G Andrews, Plantagenet Ancestry of King Edward III And Queen Philippa. Salt Lake: Mormon Pioneer Genealogical Society, 1985. LDS Film#0441438. nypl#ARF-86-2555. Parsons, John Carmi, GERTRUDE of FLANDERS. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 10/23/1998-050642. Subject: Re: ROBERT CT of FLANDERS/dau GERTRUDE of FLANDERS. Available at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/1998-10/0909144402. Author address: jparsons at chass dot utoronto dot ca. Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. I.2: Premysliden, Askanier, Herzoge von Lothringen, die Hauser Hessen, Wurttemberg und Zahringen. Frankfurt am Main: Vittorio Klostermann, 1999. Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. I: Die Stammesherzoge, Die Weltlichenkurforsten, Die Kaiserlichen, Koniglichen und Grossherzoglichen Familien. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1980. Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. II: Die Ausserdeutschen Staaten Die Regierenden Hauser der Ubrigen Staaten Europas. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1984. Schwennicke, Detlev, ed., Europaische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der europaischen Staaten, New Series. VI: Familien des Alten Lotharingien I. Marburg: Verlag von J. A. Stargardt, 1978. Watney, Vernon James, The Wallop Family and their Ancestry, Oxford:John Johnson, 1928. LDS Film#1696491 items 6-9. Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992. RESEARCH NOTES: Gfin v. Flanders [Ref: ES I #95] Our sources for the issue of Gertrude of Flanders' first marriage, to Ct Henry III of Louvain, are the _Genealogia ducum Brabantiae heredum Franciae_, ed. G. Waitz in *Monumenta Germaniae Historica*, Scriptores 25 (Hannover, 1880), p. 390, and the _Chronica Alberici monachi Trium Fontium_, ed. P. Scheffer-Boichorst, also in *MGH* Scriptores 23 (Hannover, 1874), p. 871. Neither chronicle gives names for the 4 daughters Gertrude bore Henry and the only comment given is the _Genealogia's_ remark that one of the four was a great-grandmother of Frederick Barbarossa's wife, Beatrix of Burgundy. It was long thought that this unknown daughter was to be identified with the wife of one of the counts of Burgundy (i.e., the Franche-Comte') but more recently she has been identified as Adelaide, wife of the duke of Lorraine, as in Ms Andreasen's original post. I believe the first time I came across this corrected descent was in _Die Ahnen Konradins_ (1970). There is reason to believe at least one other of the 4 daughters married and had issue. In an undated letter 1172 X 1190, Gertrude's descendant Count Philip of Flanders addressed Count John I of Ponthieu as his kinsman (*cognatus*--this term *can* signify brother-in-law, but the marriages of both Philip and John are well documented and this was not the case, so there must have been some blood relationship between them). The only way I have been able to account for such a kinship between these two men would be to assume that Count John's mother Ida, whose parentage is not known, was in some way a descendant of Gertrude of Flanders. As the issue of her second marriage, to duke Thiery II of Lorraine are well known, it seems likely that the link came through Gertrude's first marriage. Ida could not have been a daughter of that marriage, but she could have been a granddaughter. As no link has ever been noted between the counts of Ponthieu and the dukes of Lorraine, I would think that another of Gertrude's daughters by Henry would have been the more likely ancestress, though neither the name nor the marriage of that daughter has yet been established. Certainly the counts of Ponthieu did inherit some rights in Flanders and a descent from Gertrude would easily account for this. See my article, "The Origins of English Administration in Ponthieu: An Unnoticed Document of 1280," *Mediaeval Studies*, 50 (1988), 371-403, esp. 385 and note 65. [Ref: John Carmi Parsons SGM 10/23/1998-050642]
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