Note: Regarding the identity of Clemence, mother of Joan of England, wife of
Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales, the following information might be helpful. The actual entry in the Tewksbury annals which pertains to Joan's mother, "Queen" Clemence, reads as follows: Year: A.D. 1236 Obiit domina Johanna domina Walliae, uxor Lewelini filia regis Johannis et regina Clemencie, iii. kal. Aprilis." [Died lady Joan lady of Wales, wife of Llywelyn, daughter of King John and Queen Clemence, 3 Kal. April." Reference: Henry Richard Luard, Annales Monastici, 1 (1864): 101. In this case, the monk was evidently indulging in medieval legalism. Before her death, Joan had been legitimized by the Pope. On the basis of that legitimization, the Tewksbury monk evidently chose to elevate Joan's mother to the status of Queen, as if Joan's mother had been King John's wife. In point of fact, King John and Joan's mother, Clemence, were never married. By referring to Joan's mother as "Queen" Clemence, the monk who recorded Joan's death was showing his extreme respect for Joan, not attempting to alter the facts. The item from the Patent Rolls cited by Robert Battle below involving Joan's daughter, Susanna, was located by me some years ago. Basically, the document states that King Henry III is entrusting the care of his niece, Susanna (daughter of Llywelyn and Joan), to the care of Nicholas de Verdun and Clemence, his wife. On the surface, there would be nothing to suggest any connection between Susanna of Wales and Clemence, wife of Nicholas de Verdun. However, Susanna was almost certainly being held in England as a hostage as a guarantee for good behavior on the part of her father, Llywelyn. Her brother, David, for instance, was being held hostage in England at the time of the Magna Carta. My experience with foreign hostages has been that they were often placed with their English relatives, if any were available. To verify that, one has only to consult the long list of Scottish hostages in this period, who I discovered were repeatedly placed with their English kinsmen. Being a hostage in this period basically meant the person was under house arrest. Under such circumstances, it is easy to understand why such persons were placed with their own relations. The fact that Clemence, wife of Nicholas de Verdun, is mentioned at all catches the eye. Under normal circumstances, the wife would not be named. The fact that she was so named suggests she had some interest in Susanna. Given the fact we know that Susanna's grandmother was named Clemence, it becomes readily apparent that Clemence, wife of Nicholas de Verdun, was Susanna's own grandmother. That this is true is underscored by the fact that when the king later granted Susanna's care to another individual, no mention was made of the other man's wife. Even more important, the name Clemence is extremely rare among English noble women of this period. The fact that anyone named Clemence would be associated with Susanna is important. As for the identity of Clemence de Verdun, Paget shows that she was the daughter of Roger de Dauntsey, of Wiltshire. It is interesting that Clemence would hail from Wiltshire. Over the years, I've noticed that King John had a strong attachment to Wiltshire, it being the home of his most trusted allies, the Longespee, Marshal, and Basset families and Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl of Essex. Surely, given that his strongest supporters were all Wiltshire people suggests that King John spent much time there. Back in 1992, I shared my findings on Clemence de Dauntsey with Gary Boyd Roberts, who in turn placed her name as Joan's mother in his book, Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants, published in 1993. On page 305, he notes that I was then planning an article on Princess Joan and her mother, Clemence. Due to circumstances beyond my control, the article was never published as scheduled. However, I do plan to include a discussion of Clemence de Dauntsey in my forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry, 3rd edition. For those interested in obtaining a copy of the book, please contact me privately at my e-mail address below. In this case, I think the evidence is suggestive but not conclusive that Clemence de Dauntsey was Princess Joan's mother. Perhaps with a little prodding of the records, the desired conclusive evidence of Joan's parentage will yet be
located. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry@@msn.com
RootsWeb.com is NOT responsible for the content of the GEDCOMs uploaded through the WorldConnect Program. The creator of each GEDCOM is solely responsible for its content.