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Family
Marriage: Children:
  1. Alice of, Countess of Flanders: Birth: Abt 910 in Vermandois,Normandy,France. Death: 10 OCT 958 in Bruges (Belgium)

  2. Luitgarda de Vermandois: Birth: Abt 915 in Vermandois,Normandy,France. Death: Aft 9 FEB 978 in Blois,France - wife of Theobald

  3. Albert I "The Pious" Count of Vermandois: Birth: 920 in Vermandois,Normandy,France. Death: 8 SEP 987 in St. Quentin

  4. Robert de Vermandois: Birth: 920 in Vermandois,Normandy,France. Death: 29 AUG 968 in Troyes? France (Ancient Capital of Champagne)

  5. Renaud De Roucy: Birth: 926 in Roucy,Aisne,France Abt 937. Death: 15 MAR 973 in 10 May 967

  6. Herbert Vermandois: Birth: 910/915. Death: 28 DEC 993


Notes
a. Note:   I wish I was sure of every name in this file & that I didnt need to know what you think :) hey, but always refining this, So if you spot a place where Im just flat wrong please tell me or someone I didnt go on out with, I do this file out of fun and wanting to know, but do not respond to the 'know it alls' , that dont have manners.I dont consider them Kin! Thanks and Happy Hunting! GIVN Herbert II Count of SURN VERMONDOIS NSFX *
  GIVN Herbert II Count of SURN VERMANDOIS DATE 15 Dec 2000 HIST: @N2290@
  GIVN Herbert Ii, Count of SURN Vermandois AFN 9G82-J4 DATE 28 AUG 2000 TIME 22:21:58
  NSFX et Troyes TYPE Book AUTH Stuart, Roderick W. PERI Royalty for Commoners EDTN 3d PUBL Genealogical Publishing co., Inc, Baltimore, MD (1998) ISB 0-8063-1561-X TEXT 188-38; 231-36 TYPE Book AUTH ´┐ŻA or c:Weis, Frederick Lewis PERI Ancestral Roots EDTN 7th PUBL Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, MD (1999) TEXT 50-18; 136-18 DATE 30 MAY 2000
  Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
  Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
  OCCU Count de Vermandois ... SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3 says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001 says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ; SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943; COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says 23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168 Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II (Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
  OCCU Count de Vermandois ... SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3 says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001 says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ; SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943; COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says 23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168 Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II (Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
  OCCU Count de Vermandois ... SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3 says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001 says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ; SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943; COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says 23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168 Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II (Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
  OCCU Count de Vermandois ... SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3 says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001 says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ; SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943; COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says 23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168 Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II (Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
  DATE 5 MAY 2000
  TITL Final.ged REPO CALN MEDI Other DATA TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999 TITL Final.ged REPO CALN MEDI Other DATA TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999 TITL Final.ged REPO CALN MEDI Other DATA TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999 TITL Final.ged REPO CALN MEDI Other DATA TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
  OCCU Ct of Vermandoisubject: Re: Burgundy, Gerberga, Manassas, etc.From: Matman <mat_man@hotmail.com>Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:20:11 +0900Todd A. Farmerie wrote:> > addressed by Szabolcs de Vajay, in _Annales de Bourgogne_(hereafter AB)> 34:154-69. As is typical of the author, when faced with twoconflicting> versions of a relationship (in this case regarding theancestry of> Gerberga, Queen of Italy) he develops an entirely differentone. In> this case, he concludes that Gerberga was granddaughter ofLetaud,> daughter of his son Othon. The trouble with this, (and I realise you're not propoundingthis personally) is that in this theory, Otto-William marries thewife of his great uncle:Letaud/Leotold etc |__________________________________| | Othon || |Gerberga || |Otto-William 2.m Ermentrude m.1 Alberic II of MaconVajay invented this Othon/Otto to explain why Otto II of Macon(Otto-William's grandson) calls Letaud his _atavus_ as I mentioned ina previous post. But as the sources have Otto-William as the sonof Gerberga, there is no real need for this Othon anyway. > Here he again differs from ES, showing Geoffrey marryingfirst, the> aunt, Aelis of Vermandois, daughter of Heribert II, and by herhavingThis would mean that Heribert II (d.943) had two daughterscalledAdelaide Adela/Aelis etc. We know one married Arnulf the Old ofFlanders in the 930's, so any daughter of Heribert II who wasyoung enough to givebirth to Fulk the Black and co in c.970, could not have comefromthe same wife: one would have to invent another wife orconcubine.K.F Werner mapped out the Vermandois family in 1960, and themajorityof historians have followed his version, including the ES, Ithink.Perhaps if the two theories, ie Gerberga dau of Lambert, andGerbergadau of Leutaud/Leotold, are kept separate, it might be a bitclearer.The Lambert theory: (Bouchard, 'Sword & Mitre', Werner Die Weltals Geschicht, 1960)Robert m. Adelaide|Adela m.1 Geoffrey m.2 Adelaide m1 Lambert | d.987 | | d.978/9| | |Fulk III Maurice _____|_________________ | | |Gerberga Matilda Hugom1 Adalbert m Geoffrey |2 Henry of Semur|Alberic II 1m. Ermentrude m2 Otto-WilliamThe Letaud/Leotold theory:_________________________________| |Letaud/Leotold m. Ermengarde Giselbert d.956| m. Ermengarde| || Robert 1m. Adelaide m.2 Lambert| | _______________|_____________ |__________| | | || Gerberga m.2 Henry m.2 Matilda || m.1 Adalbert m.2 Geoffrey || | of Semur || | |Alberic II m 1. Ermentrude m. 2 Otto-William || ____________________|| |Guy of Macon m. AelisI havn't included the idea of 2 Adelaide's daughters ofGiselbert,or Hugo of Chalons, Geoffrey of Anjou, cos of space: but itdoesn't make much difference. Matt DATE 27 OCT 1997


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