The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I39549
  • Name: Theobald GRENVILLE , of Stowe & Bideford, Sir 1 2
  • Sex: M
  • ALIA: Theobald /Granville/, of Stowe & Bideford, Sir
  • Birth: 1322 in Stowe in Kilkhampton, Stratton, Cornwall, England 1
  • Birth: ABT 1325 2
  • Death: 1377 in Bideford, Devon, England
  • Note:
    The following is part of a post to SGM, 31 May 2001, by Louise Staley:

    However, Theobald the elder as sheriff of Devonshire was the leader of a murderous rabble in 1347 that "after severely beating and even murdering some of the tenants and residents of the place, these lawless invaders decamped hooting and shouting, and terrifying all the neighbourhood." He was supposed to be enforcing a suit against the Bishop of Exeter. As a result of this he was excommunicated. However by January of the following year he obtained absolution. His sureties were "John de Ralegh and John de Dynham, Knights, and Almaric Fitzwaryn, Sheriff of Devonshire." I assume this is Sir John Dinham who married Muriel Courtenay, daughter of Sir Thomas Courtenay and Muriel Moels. Interesting isn't it, because Muriel Courtenay was the (much) older sister of Margaret Courtenay who married Thomas Peverell.

    Is it the case that John would have been an adult to present to Bideford in 1381? I didn't know that. If so it brings his birth date back, as you say, to before 1360, 7 years earlier than other sources eg when he became a knight. I speculated on one of my messages to soc.gen.med that John and William may not of had the same mother. William didn't die until c 1449 and didn't marry Philippa Bonville until after 12 May 1427 whereas John died in 1410/11, aged 50+ according to the reasoning above.

    I am wondering at this point whether Theobald b 1322 was the father of 3 sons all born in the 1350's; Theobald who married Margaret Courtenay (d/o Thomas Courtenay) after 1369 but had no issue when he died in 1381 leaving her free to marry Thomas Peverell, John who died 1411 and William. This third son William, was then the father of William who married Philippa Bonville. On this basis William the elder could have married Thomasine Cole who is usually shown as William Grenville's first wife.

    This will get over the problem that John Grenville who appears to have been born before 1360 definitely had a brother William Grenville. Yet the only William we know about married Thomasine Cole and then Philippa Bonville after 1427 and Philippa went onto marry again in 1450. Obviously this new theory takes the Courtenays out of the picture for living descendants but it does answer the original question "who was Margaret Courtenay?"

    Comments anyone?



    regards
    Louise

    NOTE: I have not followed Louise suggestion in placing John's birth date as <1360 (nor in having him son of the elder Theobald), but I do believe her suggestion of two generations of William might be true, with the elder William m. Thomasine Cole and the younger William m. Philippa Bonville.




    Father: Henry GRENVILLE , of Stowe & Bideford b: ABT 1295 in Stowe in Kilkhampton, Stratton, Cornwall, England

    Marriage 1 Joyce (Joice) BEAUMONT b: ABT 1325 in Highampton, Okehampton, Devon, England
      Children
      1. Has Children Theobald GRENVILLE , of Stowe & Bideford, Sir b: ABT 1345 in Stowe in Kilkhampton, Stratton, Cornwall, England

      Sources:
      1. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
        Page: Louise Staley, 29 May 2001
      2. Title: Visitations of Cornwall, Comprising the Heralds' Visitations of 1530, 1573, & 1620, with additions by J. L. Vivan, 1887, books.google.com
        Page: 190
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