The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

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  • ID: I34217
  • Name: Margaret WAKE 1
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1473 in Blisworth, Towcester, Northamptonshire, England
  • Note:
    The following post to SGM by Henry Berg indicates that John's wife was Margaret Wake (not Daundelyn, which he states may have been a (previous?) married name for her):

    Henry Berg Jul 23 2003, 9:44 pm

    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    From: hankb... AT yahoo.com (Henry Berg)
    Date: 23 Jul 2003 21:44:35 -0700
    Local: Wed, Jul 23 2003 9:44 pm
    Subject: Bernard of Abington

    Bernard, of Abington (ancestral to the Virginia Bernards)

    As a preface, I am not descended from this family, but am submitting this as a possible starting point to correct some errors in this family line (as published in Magna Carta Sureties, et al):

    John Bernard, of Abington Manor, co. Northants., born ca. 1469, died 1508, is usually said to have been the son of John Bernard and Margaret Scrope, and to have married a woman named "Margaret Daundelyn". However, the Inquistion Post Mortem of John [Inq.P.M. Henry VII # 568] shows that this is not completely correct. It states that John died 24 Aug 1508; that his mother's name was Mary, not Margaret, and that he had married, at Blisworth, to MARGARET WAKE, daughter of Roger Wake and Elizabeth his wife, who later married Sir John Grey. The inquisition further states that his heir was his son John, then age 18, who had married at Earls Barton 16 Jan 1507/8 Cecily, daughter of John Muscote.

    I have regrettably not examined the Visitations of Northamptonshire for the Bernard families, but this Inquisition does raise several interesting questions. If John (died 1508) was in fact the son of a woman named Mary, this calls into question the royal descent traced through Margaret Scrope. The name "Mary" may be a transcription error for an abbreviation ("Marg", perhaps?) or alternately, the mother's name was Mary Scrope, not Margaret.

    Also, it seems somewhat puzzling that while John Bernard, (d. 1549) was married in 1507/8, his son and heir, Francis, is usually said to have been born in about 1528. Presumably Cecily Muscote was fairly close to her husband in age, and thus would have been in her mid to late 30's when Francis was born.

    A Wake pedigree which I have not seen, but which is filed in the LDS Ancestral File, does show Roger Wake and his wife Elizabeth Catesby having a daughter, Margaret, married to "John Barnard.". There is no mention of a second spouse for Margaret Wake, but it is possible that she had a second husband, which might account for the "Daundelyn" surname applied to her in works such as "Magna Carta Sureties" and frequently quoted in soc.genealogy.medieval.

    The lineage of Margaret Wake would seem to be as follows: (taken partly from Ancestral File, augmented by some other internet sources, but would need extensive documentation.)

    I've begun with Alice de Pateshull, whose lineage is already in the Douglas Richardson book (per his posts on earlier pages):

    ALICE DE PATESHULLL, d. 1398, m. Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, co. Northampton and East Deeping, co. Lincoln (living 12 Sep 1379, bur. East Deeping)

    Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, d. 14 Aug 1383, married MAUD PIGOT (d. 26 Apr 1425), dau. of Sir John Pigot, of Cardington, co. Beds.

    Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, b. 12 Mar 1378/9 living 30 Sep 1423, dead by Whitsunday 1425 (when his mother's Inq. P.M. was taken), married MARGARET PHILIPOT (or PHILPOT)

    Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, b. ca. 1402 d. 10 Dec 1458, m. AGNES LOVELL (d. 14 Oct 1471), dau. & coheiress of Sir Thomas Lovell, of Clevedon, co. Somerset (a marriage date of 30 Sep 1432 is given for this couple source unknown)

    Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, born ca. 1433, d. 20 May 1476, married first, AGNES LOVETT, apparently dau. of Thomas Lovett, lord of the manors of Astwell, Flacote, Gifford alias Billing, and Wappenham, high sheriff of co. Northampton (who died 16 Feb 7 Henry VII (1491/2 and was bur. at Biddlesdon Abbey). [See note below]

    ROGER WAKE, of Blisworth, * ca. 1452? + 16 Mar 1503/4, married ELIZABETH CATESBY, daughter of Sir William Catesby, of Ashby St. Ledgers, co. Northants. (died 1470, bur. Ashby St. Ledgers), presumably by his second wife Joan Barre. Elizabeth survived him and married second, Sir John Grey, a son of the 1 Marquess of Dorset.

    MARGARET WAKE, born say 1470/75, married JOHN BERNARD, of Abington, co. Northants.

    [Regarding the wife of the last Sir Thomas Wake (d. 1476). LDS Ancestral File shows her as "Agnes Lovell", which is exactly the same name as his mother. However, a website [http://www.combs-families.org/combs/assoc/lovett/memorials.htm] indicates that she was Agnes Lovett, and she is described as a daughter of the above-mentioned Thomas Lovett. The same website, however, also states that a man named John Broke married first, Margaret, daughter of Thomas Lovett, and second, Isabel, daughter of Sir Thomas Wake and Agnes. If this is correct, then John would have married his first wife's niece, which as I recall would have been ecclesiastically unacceptable.]

    ------------------------

    The following post by Brad Verity, using different sources sometime later, supports many of the points made by Henry Berg, with the notable exception of the wife of Thomas Wake, d. 20 May 1476.

    Brad Verity Sep 25 2003, 1:28 am

    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    From: batr... AT hotmail.com (Brad Verity)
    Date: 25 Sep 2003 01:28:31 -0700
    Local: Thurs, Sep 25 2003 1:28 am
    Subject: Bernard of Abington

    Henry Berg wrote some months back:

    "John Bernard, of Abington Manor, co. Northants., born ca. 1469, died 1508, is usually said to have been the son of John Bernard and Margaret Scrope, and to have married a woman named "Margaret Daundelyn". However, the Inquistion Post Mortem of John [Inq.P.M. Henry VII # 568] shows that this is not completely correct. It states that John died 24 Aug 1508; that his mother's name was Mary, not Margaret, and that he had married, at Blisworth, to MARGARET WAKE, daughter of Roger Wake and Elizabeth his wife, who later married Sir John Grey."

    W.E. Hampton - in yet another article, 'Roger Wake of Blisworth', published in the 1985 book "Richard III: Crown and People", edited by J. Petre -states "He [Roger Wake of Blisworth] appointed as his executors his wife, Thomas Parmenter, Master of the Hospital of St John the Baptist at Northampton, John Barnard, esquire, his son-in-law, and William Wake the elder. [footnote: CIPM H VII, Vol. II, no. 847, pp. 543-4.]"

    "The inquisition further states that his heir was his son John, then age 18, who had married at Earls Barton 16 Jan 1507/8 Cecily, daughter of John Muscote."

    Hampton, in a pedigree chart, names only one child, a son "Richard" for Margaret Wake and John Barnard.

    "I have regrettably not examined the Visitations of Northamptonshire for the Bernard families, but this Inquisition does raise several interesting questions. If John (died 1508) was in fact the son of a woman named Mary, this calls into question the royal descent traced through Margaret Scrope."

    There may be another royal descent - from Edward I. Hampton theorizes that Roger Wake of Blisworth's mother was Margaret, daughter of Sir Lewis John, by Anne, daughter of John Montacute, Earl of Salisbury.

    "The name "Mary" may be a transcription error for an abbreviation ("Marg", perhaps?) or alternately, the mother's name was Mary Scrope, not Margaret."

    Hampton in the pedigree says John was the "son of John Barnard of Abyngdon, Northants, who d. October 1485, and Margaret, sister of John, Lord Scrope of Bolton."

    Digging out my copy of the Scrope article in Dugdale's Visitation of Yorkshire, we have as the third and final listed daughter of the 4th Lord Scrope of Bolton: "Margaret, mar. first William Plessington, secondly Hugh Stafford, thirdly John Bernard, of Abingdon." No Mary - the other two daughters are named Agnes and Elizabeth.

    I would guess you're right - 'Margaret' was really 'Mary', or vice versa.

    "A Wake pedigree which I have not seen, but which is filed in the LDS Ancestral File, does show Roger Wake and his wife Elizabeth Catesby having a daughter, Margaret, married to "John Barnard.". There is no mention of a second spouse for Margaret Wake, but it is possible that she had a second husband, which might account for the "Daundelyn" surname applied to her in works such as "Magna Carta Sureties" and frequently quoted in soc.genealogy.medieval."

    John Barnard is the only husband that Hampton lists for Margaret Wake.

    "The lineage of Margaret Wake would seem to be as follows: (taken partly from Ancestral File, augmented by some other internet sources, but would need extensive documentation.)"

    [snip of early generations]

    Hampton on the Wake origins says only: "The Wakes of Blisworth derive their descent from the last Lord wake's great-uncle, Sir Hugh, lord of Blisworth in Northamptonshire, and Deeping in Lincolnshire, who in 1313 was pardoned for his share in the killing of Piers Gaveston. [footnote: 'Burke's Peerage and Baronetage', from which much of the foregoing information is obtained.]"

    It's interesting to note that Piers Gaveston had the right to the marriage of royal ward Thomas Wake at the time Hugh Wake helped kill him.

    "Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, b. ca. 1402 d. 10 Dec 1458, m. AGNES LOVELL (d. 14 Oct 1471), dau. & coheiress of Sir Thomas Lovell, of Clevedon, co. Somerset (a marriage date of 30 Sep 1432 is given for this couple-source unknown)"

    Hampton agrees with this completely in his Wake pedigree, and only adds that this Thomas Wake was Sheriff of Northampton 1434/5-1450.

    "Sir THOMAS WAKE, of Blisworth, born ca. 1433, d. 20 May 1476, married first, AGNES LOVETT, apparently dau. of Thomas Lovett, lord of the manors of Astwell, Flacote, Gifford alias Billing, and Wappenham, high sheriff of co. Northampton (who died 16 Feb 7 Henry VII (1491/2 and was bur. at Biddlesdon Abbey). [See note below]"

    Now we get into discrepancy. Hampton states "He [Roger Wake] was the eldest surviving son of Thomas Wake by a wife whose name is not recorded. It is just possible that a monumental brass may provide the answer to the problem of her identity. At Ingrave, in Essex, may be seen the brass to Margaret, daughter of Sir Lewes John by Anne, daughter of John Montacute, Earl of Salisbury. She married twice, possibly thrice. Her first husband was Sir William Lucy, and her second was a Wake. His Christian name has not survived. The inscription is mutilated. [footnote: Margaret died 1466. Like Thomas Wake, Sir Lewis John was a supporter of the Earl of Warwick. He was slain, fighting for the Earl, at Barnet. A shield of arms from Margaret's brass, possibly still loose in the vestry of Ingrave Church, appears to point to a third, unrecorded, marriage - to a Goshalm. Her Wake husband could possibly be Thomas Wake of Mordon, Cambridge, whose will was proved in 1466. In 1465, several notables, and the Sheriffs of six counties, were ordered to arrest her, Dame Margaret Lucy, Thomas Wake, esquire, and Thomas Pachet. They were to be brought before the King in Chancery.]"

    The eldest son and heir of Thomas Wake - Roger Wake's elder brother - was slain at Edgecot near Banbury in 1469, which means Thomas and his first wife were probably married by the early 1450s. They had two other sons and a daughter. Hampton states: "In December 1469 the broken-minded Lord Latimer died. His widow, the Lady Elizabeth Latimer, daughter of Richard Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick, soon after became the second wife of Thomas Wake."

    "ROGER WAKE, of Blisworth, * ca. 1452? + 16 Mar 1503/4, married ELIZABETH CATESBY, daughter of Sir William Catesby, of Ashby St. Ledgers, co. Northants. (died 1470, bur. Ashby St. Ledgers), presumably by his second wife Joan Barre. Elizabeth survived him and married second, Sir John Grey, a son of the 1 Marquess of Dorset."

    Hampton states Roger Wake and Elizabeth Catesby were married by 1479. He also says, "Elizabeth married again, her second husband being a man who must have been considerably her junior. He was John Grey, younger [in his pedigree, Hampton calls him third surviving] son of Thomas, Marquess of Dorset. According to Dugdale, Dorset's [in the pedigree, sixth] daughter Margaret married Richard Wake, of Blisworth, Elizabeth Wake's second son, from whom today's Wakes descend."

    "[Regarding the wife of the last Sir Thomas Wake (d. 1476). LDS Ancestral File shows her as "Agnes Lovell", which is exactly the same name as his mother. However, a website [http://www.combs-families.org/combs/assoc/lovett/memorials.htm] indicates that she was Agnes Lovett, and she is described as a daughter of the above-mentioned Thomas Lovett. The same website, however, also states that a man named John Broke married first, Margaret, daughter of Thomas Lovett, and second, Isabel, daughter of Sir Thomas Wake and Agnes. If this is correct, then John would have married his first wife's niece, which as I recall would have been ecclesiastically unacceptable.]"

    According to Hampton's pedigree, the one sister of Roger Wake of Blisworth was "Isabel, m. John Broke".

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers, ------Brad




    Father: Roger WAKE , of Blisworth b: ABT 1452 in Blisworth, Towcester, Northamptonshire, England
    Mother: Elizabeth CATESBY b: ABT 1455 in Ashby St. Ledgers, Daventry, Northamptonshire, England

    Marriage 1 John BERNARD , of Abington, Esq b: 1469 in Abington, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England
    • Married: in Alternate Wife ?
    Children
    1. Has Children John BERNARD , of Abington, Esq b: ABT 1490 in Abington, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England

    Sources:
    1. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Brad Verity, 25 Sep 2003
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