The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I30294
  • Name: Margaret de BRIENE 1 2 3
  • Sex: F
  • ALIA: Margaret de /Bryan/
  • Birth: AFT 1340 in Walwyn's Castle, Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales 4
  • Death: ABT 1362 5
  • Note:
    He [Hugh de Courtenay] married, 1stly, before May 1361, Margaret, daughter of Sir Guy DE BRYAN, [Lord Bryan, summoned 1350], probably by his 1st wife, but certainly by one antecedent to Elizabeth, daughter of William (DE MONTAGU), 1st EARL OF SALISBURY. She died shortly after 1361. [Complete Peerage III:466, IV:325, XIV:259, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

    -----------------------

    The following is excerpted from a post to SGM, 21 Oct 1998, by Paul Reed (full post is in notes under William St. Maur, b. 1469):

    2. John Erleigh, their son and heir, was born at Durston 29 Nov. 6 Edw. III [1332] (CIPM 10:81-2, no. 198). There are accounts of this descent in Banks' Baronies in Fee (1843) 2:74 and Collinson's History of Somerset (1791) 2:198-9. It is said that he was knighted, and that he married MARGARET DE BRIEN, daughter of Sir Guy de Brien, K. G. Banks cites "MS. voc. Chaos In Coll[ege of] Arm[s]" for the identification of the wife and her parentage. They are supposed to be parents of Sir John, Richard, and Philip de Erleigh and three daughters.

    Margaret might have been born say 1340-50, more likely about 1345. This would fit with her being second daughter of Sir Guy de Bryan/Briene, Lord Bryan. But that Margaraet's husband Hugh de Courtenay did not die until 1374. This would make the intervening chronology a little tight, unless the pedigrees are in error and there was no John who married isabel de Paveley [my generation 3, next]. It is known from the IPM of John St. Maur (below) that his wife Margaret was the daughter of John Erlegh, esquire, and her lands prove she was the Erleigh heiress.

    Note: It would appear to me (but I am not sure that Paul Reed agrees because of his concern about Hugh's 1374 death date) that Margaret was m. 1stly to John Erleigh and 2ndly to Hugh de Courtenay. I would put her date a bit earlier than 1345, since she had children by her 1st husband, remarried & died shortly after 1361 (why not say about 1362?), a lot to do if you are only 17. The "shortly aft. 1361" date comes from CP, which does not mention another marriage for Margaret, but definitely indicates that Hugh Courtenay was her last husband, since she died while married to Hugh. If Margaret indeed had 6 children by John Erleigh, it is almost as if there were two Margarets: one who m. Hugh Courtenay, and the other who m. John Erleigh. I have at least a dozen instances of people giving two children the same name.




    Father: Guy IV 1st Baron de BRIENE , of Walwyns, KG,Sir b: 1309 in Walwyn's Castle, Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales
    Mother: Joan de CAREW b: ABT 1319 in Carew Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales

    Marriage 1 John de ERLEIGH , of Beckington, Sir b: 29 NOV 1332 in Durston, Taunton, Somerset, England
      Children
      1. Has Children John de ERLEIGH , of Beckington b: BEF 1361 in Beckington, Frome, Somerset, England

      Marriage 2 Hugh 3rd Baron de COURTENAY b: BEF 2 SEP 1349 in Colcombe Castle, Colyton, Devon, England
      • Married: BEF MAY 1361 in 2nd husband 1st wife 6

      Sources:
      1. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: IV:325
        Text: Margaret de Bryan
      2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
        Page: Paul C Reed, 21 Oct 1998
      3. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: II:361-2 note (h)
      4. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
        Page: Paul C Reed, 21 Oct 1998
        Text: 1340-1350, probably 1345 (I say earlier, like 1340)
      5. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: IV:325
        Text: shortly after 1361
      6. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: IV:325
        Text: 1st wife
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