The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I27900
  • Name: Joan FITZWILLIAM 1 2
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1305 in Tattershall, Horncastle, Lincolnshire, England 2
  • Note:
    There are two places for Joan in the FitzWilliam & Sothill/Soothill families, both have her daughter of William FitzWilliam and wife of Henry Sothill/Soothill. The visitation pedigree plus the fact that William & Isabel Deincourt are known to have a daughter Joan indicate that particular position in the families; while chronological studies by John Ravilious (plus her apparent attachment to Tattershall) indicate a much later placement. I have put her in both places, extending the Sothill/Soothill line down to Henry, b. c 1385, in order to indicate the alternative place. Supposedly Joan only occurs in one or the other postitions--not both, although who knows for sure.

    -------------------------------

    The following post to SGM, 9 Nov 2002, by John Ravilious gives a whole new pedigree for the Henry Sothill/Soothill who m. Joan FitzWilliam and indicates that Joan was born far later (3 generations) than earlier thought:

    From: John Ravilious (therav3 AT aol.com)
    Subject: Re: Soothill of Soothill, co. Yorks., Redbourn, co. Lincs. & C - Pt I
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2002-11-09 20:03:24 PST

    It can be reasonably inferred, given the above cited records and the Visitation pedigrees, that Joan FitzWilliam was married to Henry de Soothill - the problem was 'merely', which Henry de Soothill? The problem was not the proper placement of Joan in the FitzWilliam pedigree, but that of Henry de Soothill in the Soothill/Sothill pedigree. I would submit the following is most likely the correct arrangement (numbered references are to the Soothill pedigree from the first post in this thread):

    [Chart showing Joan FitzWilliam as daughter of William FitzWilliam & Maud Cromwell m. Henry de Soothill, d. aft 1410, son of Sir Henry , d. ca. 1375 & Denise, son of Sir Henry, d. 1363.6 & Joan, son of Sir Henry, d. ca. 1352.]

    This placement is some 4 generations later than the Visitation pedigree reflects. It is certainly more palatable from a chronological point of view; unfortunately, a FitzWilliam descent (and a Plantagenet connection via Hamelin, Earl of Surrey) are lost to the descendants of Sir Gerard Soothill of Redbourn (1. 1. 2. 1. 3. above).

    Any comment or criticism of the above is welcome, as are certainly any other details as to any known issue (esp. a daughter Joan) of William FitzWilliam and Maud Cromwell outside the Visitation record.

    Good luck, and good hunting.

    John

    ---------------------------

    The following post to SGM, 30 Dec 2001, by Douglas Richardson, indicates the older theory about Joan, according to the visitation, which may be superseded by the above post by John Ravilious.

    From: Douglas Richardson (royalancestry AT msn.com)
    Subject: Re: Sothill Chronology, a rehash with Markenfield
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2001-12-30 10:46:23 PST

    Various visitation pedigrees show Joan Fitzwilliam, wife of Henry Sothill (or Soothill), to be the daughter of Sir William Fitzwilliam. Given the chronology involved, it would appear she is the daughter of Sir William Fitzwilliam, of Sprotborough, co. York, died c. 1342, by his wife, Isabel Deincourt. This couple definitely had a daughter named Joan, as indicated by Isabel (Deincourt) Fitzwilliam's will. Below please find my accounts of Sir William Fitzwilliam and of Henry and Joan (Fitzwilliam) Sothill, which are taken from the forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry, 3rd edition. My sources are fully cited.

    I trust this information has been helpful.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    E-mail: royalancestry AT msn.com




    Father: William FITZWILLIAM , of Emley & Sprotborough,Sir b: ABT 1270 in Emley, Wakefield, Yorkshire, England
    Mother: Isabel (Maud) DEINCOURT b: ABT 1276 in Blankney, Sleaford, Lincolnshire, England

    Marriage 1 Thomas STAPLETON , of Kelynock b: ABT 1296 in Stapleton, Darlington, Yorkshire North Riding, England
    • Married: in 1st husband
    Children
    1. Has Children Christina STAPLETON b: ABT 1332 in Kelynack, Penzance, Cornwall, England

    Marriage 2 Henry SOTHILL , Sir b: ABT 1300 in Soothill, Yorkshire West Riding, England
    • Married: AFT 1343 in 2nd husband
    Children
    1. Has Children Henry SOTHILL , Sir b: ABT 1345 in Soothill, Yorkshire West Riding, England

    Sources:
    1. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: John Ravilious, 6-9 Nov 2002
    2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Douglas Richardson, 30 Dec 2001
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