The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I26666
  • Name: Margaret la ZOUCHE 1 2
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1358 in Harringworth, Northamptonshire, England
  • Death: 1430 3
  • Note:
    Margaret m. William Marshal as 2nd husband. [Ancestral Roots]

    Douglas Richardson & others on SGM, state she m. William Walsall (not William Marshal), of Rushall, Staffordshire, Knight of the Shire & Sheriff of Shropshire & Staffordshire.


    The following post to SGM by Douglas Richardson, 8 Nov 2005, discusses Margaret's ancestry:

    Dear Newsgroup

    Since we're currently discussing the Griffith family of Wichnor, Staffordshirdshire and Burton Agnes, Yorkshire, I thought I'd bring up another problem in the Griffith family tree, namely the the parentage of Margaret Zouche, wife successively of Sir Rhys ap Griffith (died 25 May 1380) and William Walsall (died 1414).

    The ancient Griffith pedigree published in Misc. Gen. et Heraldica, 1 (1868): 64 states that Margaret was the daughter of "N. Zouch":

    "A 4 R. 2. Obitus secundui Resi Griffith militis filij et heredis predicti Resi et Johannae qui habuit exitum com Margareta filia N. Zouch Thomam Grifith in festo Sti Augustini Anglorum ep'I A 1380 et sepultus est apud Polesworth predicta." END OF QUOTE.

    Elsewhere, the historian Stebbing Shaw states without reference that Margaret, wife of Sir Rhys ap Griffith, was "daughter of Nicholas Zouch, of Codnor" [Reference: Stebbing Shaw, Hist. & Antiquitires of Staffordshiore, 1 (1798): 122]. This identification seems misplaced, as the Zouches of Codnor came to be at that locality at a later time period.

    Regardless, Shaw does show that Margaret, widow of Rhys ap Griffith, used a seal on an indenture dated 1419-20 which shows Griffith and Somerville impaled with the arms of Zouche: "Gules 12 bezants, a canton Ermine," which last coat he says "is still remaining, in painted glass, in Whichnor church."

    The same seal was also attached to an earlier indenture dated 1 April 1414 issued by Margaret and her 2nd husband, William Walshale, in favor of her son, Thomas Griffith, Esq.

    So, from the arms on her seal and in the window at Wichnor, it would appear that Margaret was indeed a Zouche, presumably a member of the Zouche family of Harringworth, Northamptonshire which family's coat of
    arms included a canton ermine. I assume the canton ermine was added to the Zouche arms to denote the Zouche family's descent from the earlier Dukes/Counts of Brittany.

    I haven't found any further record which would indicate Margaret's exact placement in the Zouche family of Harringworth, except for one lawsuit dated Trinity term 1430, whereby Margaret (Zouche) Griffith's executor, William la Zouche, Knt., sued William de Whichenore, yeoman, to render a reasonable account for the time he was receiver of the money of Margaret [Reference: Colls. Hist. Staffordshire 17 (1896): 129]. I assume the executor, Sir William la Zouche, was a near relative of Margaret Zouche's. Possibly he is the same person as Sir William la Zouche, 5th Lord Zouche of Harringworth (born c. 1402, died 1462). Sir William la Zouche's younger brother, John la Zouche, is the founder of the Zouche family of Codnor, Derbyshire.

    If anyone has additional particulars to add to this matter, I'd appreciate it greatly if they would post what information they have here on the newsgroup. Perhaps someone can tell us the location of Margaret (Zouche) (Griffith) Walsall's will. If so, the will would probably tell us the nature of the kinship between Margaret and her
    executor, Sir William la Zouche.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    NOTE: Based on the above discussion, which indicates that the Zouches of Codnor were born after Margaret's birth, but that she was definitely a Zouche, quite probably of Harringworth (because of the seal), I am placing her with the most likely generation, although she might be a daughter of the next generation, if she were born after 1360. Her executor in 1430 would have been her nephew (or her brother if she born of the next generation), William, 5th Lord Zouche (William, 4th Lord Zouche, d. 1415). I have Margaret 33 years younger than her husband Rhys Griffith (I have seen worse before--see Humphrey Browne, d. 1562), but she outlived him by 50 years (ie. she was obviously much younger).

    Father: William 2nd Baron la ZOUCHE , of Haryngworth b: 25 DEC 1321 in Harringworth, Northamptonshire, England
    Mother: Elizabeth de ROS b: ABT 1325 in Helmsley Castle, Yorkshire North Riding, England

    Marriage 1 Rhys II "Jevan" ap GRIFFITH , of Abermarlais, Sir b: ABT 25 DEC 1325 in Abermarlais, Llangadog, Carmarthenshire, Wales
    • Married: BEF 1377 in 1st husband 2nd wife 4 3
    1. Has Children Thomas GRIFFITH , of Wychnor & Alrewas, Esq b: 19 MAY 1377 in Wychnor, Burton-upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England

    Marriage 2 William WALSALL , of Rushall, Sir b: ABT 1358 in Rushall, Walsall, Staffordshire, England
    • Married: AFT 6 NOV 1385 in 2nd husband 3

    1. Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999
      Page: note at end of line 56a
      Text: Margaret (no last name)
    2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups -
      Page: Robert O'Connor, 26 Sep 1999
      Text: Margaret Zouche of Codnor
    3. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups -
      Page: Douglas Richardson, 10 Nov 2005
    4. Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999
      Page: note at end of line 56a
      Text: no date, 2nd wife
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