The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I25457
  • Name: Eleanor de BOHUN , Heiress of Debden 1 2 3
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1238 in Debden, Saffron Walden, Essex, England
  • Death: AFT 10 JUN 1278 4
  • Note:
    He [John de Verdun] married, 2ndly, before 1267, Eleanor (f). He is said to have died 21 October 1274. His widow was living, 10 June 1278. [Complete Peerage XII/2:246-8, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

    (f) Presumably his son Humphrey, b. on the vigil of Pentecost 1267, was by the 2nd wife. Nothing is known of Eleanor's parentage but she may have been a Bohun. A seal, said to be hers, bears the Bohun and Verdun arms and the name of her son, Humphrey, may be significant.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    From: Douglas Richardson (royalancestry AT msn.com)
    Subject: Re: Eleanor de Verdun, and her daughter, Maud, wife of John de Grey, of Wilton
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2002-01-16 07:08:57 PST

    Dear Newsgroup ~

    Since making my post on Eleanor (de Bohun) de Verdun yesterday, I've checked my files and found further confirmation which I believe conclusively proves that Eleanor was the daughter of Humphrey de Bohun (died 1275), Earl of Hereford and Essex. The evidence consists of two separate cases of consanguinity among descendants of Eleanor (de Bohun) de Verdun where they intermarried with their Bohun related kinfolk.

    In the first instance, my notes record that there was a papal dispensation recorded in 1334, for the marriage of Maud de Grey and John de Lisle, 2nd Lord Lisle, of Rougement. As I recall, this dispensation is mentioned by Complete Peerage sub Lisle. Maud and John were stated to be related in the 4th degree in their petition for a dispensation (i.e., third cousins to each other). Maud de Grey was great-granddaughter of Eleanor (de Bohun) de Verdun. John de Lisle was great-grandson of Alice (de Bohun) de Tony. If the degree of kinship was correctly stated in the papal registers, it would appear that Maud's ancestress, Eleanor de Bohun, and John's ancestress, Alice de Bohun, were sisters. Since Alice is known to have been a daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex (died 1275), this in turn tells us that Eleanor was daughter of the same Humphrey de Bohun.

    In the second instance, my notes record there was a papal inquiry in 1334 regarding the marriage of Margaret Basset and John de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex. Margaret Basset was a great-granddaughter of Eleanor (de Bohun) de Verdun. Margaret and her husband, John, were closely related, but my notes don't tell how closely related the two parties were, if the degree of kinship was stated. To resolve the question of kinship, the Pope summoned a host of relatives of the young couple. Among those summoned were several of Margaret Basset's Grey relatives as well as Alice de Tony, widow of Walter de Beauchamp, and her daughter and son-in-law, Margaret and Robert de Lisle. The people required to give testimony presumably all had a tie to the Bohun family. If nothing else, this document provides added evidence that the Greys, Tonys, Beauchamps and Lisles all share a common descent from the Bohun family.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    E-mail: royalancestry AT msn.com




    Father: Humphrey V de BOHUN , 2nd Earl Hereford&Essex b: 1208 in Caldicot, Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales
    Mother: Maud d' EU b: ABT 1210 in La Marche, Poitou, France

    Marriage 1 John le Botiller de VERDUN , Sir b: ABT 1226 in Arklow, Wicklow, Leinster, Ireland
    • Married: AFT 1256 in 2nd wife 5
    • Married: BEF 1267 in 2nd wife 4
    Children
    1. Has Children Maud de VERDUN b: ABT 1260 in Alton Castle, Cheadle, Staffordshire, England

    Sources:
    1. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: XII/2:248 (f)
      Text: Eleanor, possibly a Bohun
    2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Douglas Richardson, 20 Feb 2002
      Text: Confirms Humphrey de Bohun as father.
    3. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: John Ravilious (Therav3), 15 Jan 2002
      Text: Humphrey de Bohun, by his 2nd wife Maud de Avenbury.
    4. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: XII/2:248
    5. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: John Ravilious (Therav3), 15 Jan 2002
      Text: actually states "aft 1255", but I am adjusting to agree with 1st wife's death.
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