The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I24968
  • Name: Alianore de CURCELES 1 2
  • Sex: F
  • ALIA: Alianore de /Turnham/
  • Birth: ABT 1205 in Artington, Guildford, Surrey, England
  • Death: BEF 1238
  • Note:
    The 1st wife of the last named Ralph FitzBernard was Alianore, daughter and coheir of Stephen de Turnham, of Artington, Surrey, the King's Marshal, by Edeline, daughter and coheir of Randolf de Broc, the King's Usher and Marshal, son of Oyne Porcel. [Complete Peerage V:400 note (b)]

    --------------------

    Note: It has been a mystery to me that Stephen has a daughter Eleanor who m. Roger de Leybourne, who was obviously a different person than this Alianore. I could not understand why Stephen had two daughters named Eleanor & Alianore (which are the same name).

    It turns out that, according to evidence presented to SGM, 20 Feb 2003, by Rosie Bevan, Alianore is not a daughter, but a granddaughter of Stephen & Edeline:

    From: "Rosie Bevan" (rbevan AT paradise.net.nz)
    Subject: Fw: Turnham
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2003-02-20 18:50:17 PST

    I think the two puzzles I mentioned in my last post are now solved. The Eleanor married to Ralph Fitz Bernard was actually granddaughter of Edelina, and daughter of Clemence and Wandril de Corcell.

    DD 426 sub de Curcellis, Wandregesil, explains part of it but does not mention that Clemence de Broc was his wife.
    "Wandregesil II de Curcellis held a third part of a fee at Frome in 1212 (Fees, 81), which passed to his daughter and heiress Eleanor, wife of Ralph fitzBernard by 1219 (Fess, 262).

    1. Stephen de Turnham=Edelina de Broc
    2.Mabel=Thomas de Bavelingham
    2.Alice=Adam de Bendeges
    2.Beatrice=Ralph de Fay
    2.Clemence=Wandril de Curceles
    3.Eleanor=Ralph fitzBernard
    2.Eleanor=Roger de Leyburn
    3.Roger de Leyburn

    Both Clemence and Eleanor were dead in 1220.

    Cheers

    Rosie




    Father: Wandril II de CURCELES , of Frome, Attorney b: ABT 1180 in Frome, Somerset, England
    Mother: Clemence de TURNHAM , Heiress of Peper Harow b: ABT 1186 in Peper Harow, Hambledon, Surrey, England

    Marriage 1 Ralph FITZBERNARD , of Kingsdown & Tong b: ABT 1198 in Kingsdown, Milton, Kent, England
    • Married: in 1st wife 1
    Children
    1. Has Children John FITZBERNARD , of Kingsdown b: ABT 1222 in Kingsdown, Kent, England

    Sources:
    1. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: V:400 (b)
    2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Rosie Bevan, 20 Feb 2003
      Text: Alianore de Curceles
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