The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I16862
  • Name: Margaret (Margery) LEYBOURNE 1 2 3
  • Sex: F
  • ALIA: Margaret (Margery) /Hereward/
  • Birth: ABT 1220 in Great Berwick near Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
  • Death: AFT 1303 4
  • Note:
    NOTE: I no longer believe that Margery is a Hereward, even though the post by Paul Reed below indicates it. Margery's daughter Margery Clifford had a daughter also named Margery Criol who m. Robert Hereward. If Margery's grandson-in-law, Robert Hereward, was closely related to the supposed father of Margery, the latter marriage would not have been allowed. In addition I think that the later marriage of Margery Criol & Robert Hereward (a marriage in which they had a daughter named Margery) may have confused some of the early followers of the family into thinking that this Margery was a dau. of Robert Hereward, when it was actually her great grandaughter Margery who was a dau. of Robert Hereward (perhaps some source document of the relationship had no date). I am following the suggestion (not proven, but supported by Leybourne arms in Margery Clifford's will) of Douglas Richardson that Margery, mother of Margery Clifford, was a Leybourne. A portion of Douglas's post is shown after the post by Paul Reed. Much of the rest of that particular post I do not agree with.

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    The following is part of a post to SGM, 10 Oct 1998, by Paul Reed, which states that she was a Hereward:

    Finally [yes, I know], I'll comment on the CLIFFORD connection. Sir RIchard de Grey of Codnor (b. 1281/2, d. 1335) married Joan Fitz Payne, daughter of Sir Robert, Lord Fitz Payne (d. 1315), by his wife Isabel de Clifford, apparently daughter and eventually coheir of Sir John de Clifford of Frampton-on-Severn, co. Gloucs. "Villa de Frampton et sunt domini ejusdem ville Isabella, que fuit uxor Roberti filii Pagani, et Willelmus de Bolesdon" (1316) [Feudal Aids 2:266]. So Isabel held Frampton in 1316. Hugh Clifford's _The House of Clifford from before the Conquest_ states that Sir John de Clifford (d. 1292) married Margaret Hereward and had three children, (1) Richard de Clifford, living 1314 (who had three children, Richard, and two daughters, all of whom entered religious orders), (2) Isabella, living 1303, who married Robert Fitz Pain, and (3) Margery, living 1314, who married Nicholas de Carroll.

    The Victoria County History of Gloucester 10:143-4 [interspersing Hugh Clifford's work], traces the descent of Frampton from Drew itz Pons (1086), to his brother Richard, to his son Walter de Clifford, who was father of Richard de Clifford (d. 1213). He was succeeded by his son and heir Richard, who was succeeded by Sir Hugh de Clifford (d. 1254) [Clifford, supra, make this Sir Hugh the last Richard's brother, instead of his son], whose son Sir John de Clifford is the man I mentioned above.

    After Frampton-on-Severn, co. Gloucester passed to Robert FitzPain [1st Lord] and Isabel his wife, the manor continued, after Robert's death in 1315 (Isabel held the manor in 1316 and 1320), to his son Robert [2nd Lord FitzPayn] (held Frampton in 1327). He settled it on his daughter [and eventual heir] Isabel FitzPayn and her husband John Chideock. The manor continued descending through their heirs.

    Much of the above was written late at night, so I welcome any any comments, analysis or corrections.

    pcr

    NOTE: Apparently "Nicholas de Carroll" above was Nicholas de Criol.

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    The following is part of a post to SGM, 28 Jan 2009, by Douglas Richardson:

    I believe Margery de Criol of the 1319 will was the second surviving wife of Nicholas de Criol who died in 1273. I believe she was a Clifford, as stated in the Visitation of Huntingdon.

    And, if she was a Clifford and if she was the aunt of Joan de Creye's son, Sir Gilbert Pecche, then presumably Margery de Criol and Joan de Creye were half-sisters, they being the daughters of the earlier Margery de Clifford, who was living in 1254, but by different husbands. The 1254 Margery de Clifford was possibly a member of the Leyborne family. If so, then as Margery de Leyborne, she presumably married (1st) _____ de Clifford, and (2nd) Simon de Creye (or Craye). This is all guesswork at this point, but it would explain how Margery de Criol of the 1319 will was aunt to Sir Gilbert Pecche. It would also explain the occurence of the Leyborne arms in Margery de Criol's will. We already know that Joan de Creye's father, Simon de Creye, was familiar with the Leyborne family.

    NOTE: I would think the marriages would be in reverse order (1) Simon Creye (2) John de Clifford.




    Father: Roger de LEYBOURNE , Lord of Berwick b: BEF 1193 in Bures, Sudbury, Essex, England
    Mother: Eleanor de TURNHAM , Heir of Great Berwick b: ABT 1193 in Great Berwick near Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England

    Marriage 1 Simon de CREYE , Sir b: ABT 1210 in North Cray, Bromley, Kent, England
    • Married: in 1st husband
    Children
    1. Has Children Joan de CREYE b: ABT 1238 in North Cray, Bromley, Kent, England

    Marriage 2 John de CLIFFORD , of Frampton, Sir b: ABT 1220 in Frampton-on-Severn, Gloucestershire, England
    • Married: BEF 1239 in 2nd husband
    Children
    1. Has Children Margery de CLIFFORD , heiress of Lillingstone b: ABT 1240 in Lillingstone Lovell, Oxfordshire, England
    2. Has Children Isabel de CLIFFORD , heiress of Frampton b: ABT 1254 in Frampton-on-Severn, Gloucestershire, England

    Sources:
    1. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Paul Reed (Reedpcgen), 20 Oct 1998
      Text: Margaret/Margery Hereward
    2. Title: VCH - Gloucestershire:. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk
      Page: X:143-8
      Text: Margery (no last name or ancestry)
    3. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Douglas Richard, 28 Jan 2009
      Text: Margaret/Margery Leybourne
    4. Title: VCH - Gloucestershire:. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk
      Page: X:143-8
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