The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I14299
  • Name: Isabel COMYN , Heiress of Ulceby 1 2
  • Sex: F
  • ALIA: Isabella de /St. Philibert/
  • Name: Isabella de ST. PHILIBERT 3
  • Birth: ABT 1315 in Ulceby, Glanford Brigg, Lincolnshire, England
  • Death: BEF 1359 4
  • Note:
    I originally had Isabel as a St. Philbert/Philibert based on a post by Alan Wilson. However, Douglas Richardson has come up with proof that she was a Comyn. This has been published in his book MCA. I have included a post to SGM, 16 Aug 2005, by Douglas on the subject below (which Douglas subsequently e-mailed to me):

    Dear Martin ~

    Thank you for your good post. You've asked an excellent question.

    There is an ancient pedigree of the Clarell family in Misc. Gen. & Heraldica which identifies Isabel, wife of Sir Thomas Clarell (he living c. 1354), as a member and heiress of the Comyn family:

    "Sir Thomas Clarell son and heyre. = Izabell Dor. & heyre of Redcomyn." [Reference: Misc. Gen. & Heraldica 4th Ser. 4 (1912): 70 (Clarell pedigree)].

    We know from other sources that Sir Thomas Clarell's wife was in fact named Isabel:

    Nottinghamshire Archives: Foljambe of Osberton: Deeds and Estate Papers, Reference: DD/FJ/4/32/8, grant dated 21 June 1335 from John Hyghe of Roderham, chaplain to Thomas Clarell and his wife Isabel in tail lands in Thorpe, 1 water mill and 1 fulling mill in Aldewerk, Osterneheeng meadow in Thrybergh, and lands in Kilnehirst and Great and Little Dalton, of which Thomas had previously enfeoffed the grantor (abstract of documents available online at http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/i ndex.asp).

    My research indicates that Thomas and Isabel's son, William Clarell (died c. 1380), of Aldwark, Yorkshire, was heir before 1376 to Sir Thomas Comyn, of Ulceby, Lincolnshire, by which he inherited the manor of Ulceby, Lincolnshire, a Comyn property:

    Nottinghamshire Archives: Foljambe of Osberton: Deeds and Estate Papers, DD/FJ/1/165/3, grant dated 11 Feb. 1375/6 from William Clarell, Lord of Ulceby to Sir Gilbert, rector of Rawmarsh, Yorkshire et al. of the manor of Ulceby, Lincolnshire, subject to the reversion of dower of dame Margaret, widow of Sir Thomas Comyn (abstract of document available online at http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/i ndex.asp).

    The Sir Thomas Comyn in question appears to have been the son of an earlier Robert Comyn, of Ulceby, Lincolnshire, who occurs in the period, 1335-1340. In 1335, Robert Comyn demanded against Roger Comyn and Agnes his wife and others land in Ulceby, Lincolnshire which William de Roos of Helmsley had given to Alice his daughter (Robert Comyn's grandmother) [Reference: Lincolnshire Notes & Queries, 9 (1907): 249-250]. In 1340 Robert Comyn charged that Robert Belhone of Scawby was charged with stealing four sheep from him at Ulceby, Lincolnshire [Reference: McLane, 1341 Royal Inquest in Lincolnshire (Lincoln Rec. Soc. 78) (1988): 127, 131].

    Given that Isabel Comyn's husband, Sir Thomas Clarell, occurs in the records in the same approximate time period as Robert Comyn, it seems apparent that Isabel Comyn, wife of Sir Thomas Clarell, was the sister of Robert Comyn (living 1335-1340), and thus daughter of John Comyn, of Ulceby, Lincolnshire, who occurs as an adult in the period, 1300-1310. John Comyn in turn was a younger son of John Comyn (died 1273-8), of Badenoch in Scotland, by his 2nd wife, Alice de Roos (died c. 1286).

    I know of no evidence whatsoever that Isabel, wife of Sir Thomas Clarell, was a member of the Saint Philibert family, although this is claimed by Hunter, South Yorkshire, 2 (1831): 51-56, and other secondary sources. Rather, I believe the descent of the manor of Ulceby, Lincolnshire from the Roos family to the Comyn family to the Clarell family confirms that Lady Isabel Clarell was a Comyn, as stated in the pedigree I've cited above. Had the Comyn line failed, the manor of Ulceby, Lincolnshire would almost certainly have reverted back to the Roos family, it being the maritagium of Robert Comyn's grandmother, Alice (de Roos) Comyn.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    Website: www.royalancestry.net

    mholl... AT mac.com wrote:

    < As a descendant of Elizabeth Mansfield, I was already noticing the
    < Montgomery material. However, there is a discrepancy between the
    < database you cite and Magna Carta Ancestry as to the parentage of
    < William Clarell c. 1340-bef 1380, the father of Thomas Clarell who
    < married Maud Montgomery.
    <
    < Magna Carta gives the parents as Thomas Clarell and Isabel Comyn (p.
    < 202) and the database has Thomas Clarell and Isabell de St. Philbert.
    < Please comment on the discrepancy.

    NOTE: It was my data base which was being referred to above (I originally had Isabella de St. Philbert).




    Father: John COMYN , of Ulceby, Sir b: ABT 1270 in Ulceby, Glanford Brigg, Lincolnshire, England
    Mother: Maud b: ABT 1285

    Marriage 1 Thomas CLARELL , of Aldwark, Sir b: BEF 1310 in Aldwark, Yorkshire North Riding, England
    • Married: BEF 21 JUN 1335 1
    Children
    1. Has Children William CLARELL , of Aldwark & Penniston, Sir b: ABT 1340 in Aldwark, Yorkshire North Riding, England

    Sources:
    1. Title: Magna Carta Ancestry, by Douglas Richardson, 2005, Genealogical Publishing Co.
      Page: 202
    2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Douglas Richardson, 16 Aug 2005
    3. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Alan B. Wilson, 3 Oct 1998
      Text: Isabella St. Philibert (no ancestry given). According to Douglas Richardson this is based on Hunter, South Yorkshire (1831), in which there doesn't seem to be any proof given.
    4. Title: Magna Carta Ancestry, by Douglas Richardson, 2005, Genealogical Publishing Co.
      Page: 202
      Text: Isabel's son William was heir to Ulceby in 1359 (I interpret this as indicating that Isabel was probably dead)
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