The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I11710
  • Name: Joan FITZBERNARD 1 2 3 4
  • Sex: F
  • ALIA: Joan /FitzBarnard/
  • Birth: 1273 in Kingsdown, Kent, England
  • Death: BEF 26 OCT 1309 in Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England 1
  • Note:
    Joan (died just prior to 26 Oct 1309), allegedly daughter of Sir John FitzBernard, of Kingsdown, Kent or William de Fenes, a Spanish Count, and possibly a relative of Edward I. [Burke's Peerage]

    Joan, perhaps dau of Sir John Fitz Barnard of Kingsdown, Kent. [Magna Charta Sureties]

    Note: Although I am keeping Joan FitzBernard as an alternate wife for historical reasons (based on the two above references), apparently the preponderance of evidence identifies John's wife as Joan de Fiennes, daughter of William de Fiennes by Blanche de Brienne (as stated in AR line 236-10). Therefore Joan FitzBernard PROBABLY NEVER EXISTED. This is based on an article in 'Genealogist Magazine' by John Carmi Parsons entitled 'Court and Household of Eleanor of Castile in 1290', (1977): 41, 44-46. Originally CP XII/2 named his wife Joan with a note (c) that stated she may be a daughter of John FitzBernard or of William de Fenes, but this was corrected by volume XIV in favor of Joan de Fiennes as it now reads.

    Below is a post to SGM by Douglas Richardson (sent to me in an e-mail by Douglas) which outlines the evidence for Joan de Fiennes:

    Dear Newsgroup ~

    In 1977, the historian, John Carmi Parsons, identified Joan, wife of John Wake, 1st Lord Wake (died 1300) as the daughter of William de Fiennes, Knt., seigneur of Fiennes and Tingry (Pas-de-Calais), and, in England, of Chokes and Gayton, co. Northampton, Wendover, co. Buckingham, etc., by Blanche, daughter and heiress of Jean de Brienne [see J.C. Parsons, Court and Household of Eleanor of Castile in 1290 (1977): 41, 44-46]. This parentage would make Joan a near kinswoman of King Edward II. Among other evidence, Parsons noted that Joan was styled "cousin" by Edward II when he was still Prince of Wales [see H. Johnstone, Letters of Edward Prince of Wales 1304-1305 (1931): 13].

    For additional evidence that Joan, wife of John Wake, was truly a Fiennes, it may be noted that Joan Wake's great-grandson, King Richard II of England, referred to many descendants of Joan's sister, Margaret de Fiennes, wife of Edmund de Mortimer, as his kinsfolk, among them being Thomas Beauchamp, William Beauchamp, Joan Burghersh, Elizabeth Burghersh, Edward Cherleton, and Thomas Clifford. While King Richard II shares a common descent from King Edward I with Edward Cherleton, this is not the case with the other individuals. Unless Joan Wake was a Fiennes, it would be difficult to explain the kinship between King Richard II and the other individuals, especially the Beauchamp and Burghersh relations. These multiple references to Fiennes descended people as his kinsfolk provides ample supporting evidence that King Richard II's great-grandmother was a Fiennes. This is a good example of how the study of references to the king's kinsmen can resolve longstanding genealogical problems.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    E-mail: royalancestry AT msn.com




    Father: John FITZBERNARD , of Kingsdown, Sir b: BET 1244 AND 1246 in Kingsdown, Kent, England
    Mother: Joan b: ABT 1251 in Northamptonshire, England

    Marriage 1 John 1st Baron WAKE , Sir b: ABT 1268 in Blisworth, Northamptonshire, England
    • Married: BEF 24 SEP 1291 in Incorrectly Identified Wife 1 3 4

    Sources:
    1. Title: Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr, 5th Edition, 1999
      Page: 114-4
    2. Title: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999
      Page: 2904
    3. Title: Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, by David Faris, 2nd Edition 1999, NEHGS
      Page: 185
    4. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: XII/2:302 note (c)
      Text: Indicates Joan FitzBernard as possbile wife of John, this was "corrected" by volume XIV in favour of Joan de Fiennes, with no mention of Joan FitzBeranrd.
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