The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I10636
  • Name: Ida de ROS 1 2 3 4
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1230 in Wark Castle, Wark-on-Tweed, Northumberland, England
  • Death: AFT 18 MAY 1315 in Horden, Peterlee, Durham, England 1 3 4
  • Note:
    He [Roger Bertram] married Ida. He was living 6 March 1271/2 and died s.p.. legit., aged about 48. His widow married, before 14 April 1273 as 2nd wife, Sir Robert DE NEVILL, of Raby, co. Durham, Sheriff Hutton, Raskelf, and Sutton, co. York, Burreth and Ranby, co. Lincoln, who died in 1282. Assignment of her dower was ordered 23 October 1282 and 25 May 1283. She married, 3rdly, without licence, before 8 May 1285, as 2nd wife, Sir John FITZ MARMADUKE, of Horden and Ravensholm, co. Durham, who died shortly before 16 August 1311. She was living 18 May 1315. [Complete Peerage II:160-62, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)

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    He [Robert de Neville] married, before 13 April 1273, as his 2nd wife, Ida, widow of Sir Roger BERTRAM, of Mitford (see BERTRAM), and died shortly before 20 August 1282. His widow had writs for assignment of dower October 1282 and May 1283, and married, 3rdly, before 8 May 1285, John FITZMARMADUKE, of Horden and Ravensholm, co. Durham, who died shortly before 16 August 1311. She was living 18 May 1315. [Complete Peerage IX:495-6, transcribed by Dave Utzinger]

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    The following e-mail from Douglas Richardson identifies Ida as a daughter of Robert de Ros, whose son William de Ros married Christin Bertram. Two of the sons & daughters of Robert de Ros and Roger Bertram intermarried which was not uncommon when two father's arranged the marriages for their children.

    From: Douglas Richardson [mailto:royalancestry AT msn.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:52 PM
    To: Ian Fettes; Jim Weber
    Cc: Therav3 AT aol.com
    Subject: An Idea here or there

    Dear Jim, Ian, and John ~
    I re-checked Hedley again today. He cites a Northumberland plea dated 1241 which states that marriages have been pre-arranged and "now have been made" between the eldest sons and heirs of Roger Bertram and Robert de Roos and their respective daughters.

    This record proves that it was Robert de Roos' son and heir, William, who married Christine Bertram, not Robert himself. This corrects Complete Peerage under both Bertram and Ros.

    This record also proves that Ida, wife of Roger Bertram, the younger, was the daughter of Robert de Roos, of Wark. Ida subsequently married (2nd) Robert de Neville, of Raby, and (3rd) John Fitz Marmaduke. This adds to the information on Ida which is found in Complete Peerage under Bertram and Neville.

    This leaves Sir Robert de Roos (died 1269) without a wife. However, inasmuch as he named a daughter, Ida, I think it is a good bet that his wife descends from the Longespee, Bigod, or Tony families, all of which families used the given name, Ida.

    Hastily, DR




    Father: Robert de ROS , Lord of Wark, Sir b: ABT 1198 in Helmsley Castle, Yorkshire North Riding, England

    Marriage 1 Roger III BERTRAM , Lord of Mitford b: 5 DEC 1224 in Mitford Castle, Morpeth, Northumberland, England
    • Married: BEF 1241 in 1st husband 5

    Marriage 2 Robert de NEVILLE , Lord of Raby, Sir b: BEF 29 SEP 1221 in Raby Castle, Durham, England
    • Married: BEF 13 APR 1273 in 2nd husband 2nd wife 1 3 4

    Marriage 3 John FITZMARMADUKE , of Stranton, Sir b: ABT 1240 in of Horden, Lamesley, Ravensholme & Eighton, Durham, England
    • Married: BEF 8 MAY 1285 in 3rd husband 2nd wife 3

    Sources:
    1. Title: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999
      Page: 14
    2. Title: Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr, 5th Edition, 1999
      Page: 118-2
    3. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: II:161
    4. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: IX:495-6
    5. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
      Page: II:161
      Text: no date ("bef. 1241" comes from Douglas Richardson)
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