The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I10142
  • Name: Joan de SOMERVILLE 1 2
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1272 in Wychnor, Burton-upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England
  • Note:
    The following is an e-mail of a post to SGM, 10 Nov 2005, by Douglas Richardson, which identifies Joan:

    From: Doug Richardson [mailto:royalancestry AT msn.com]
    Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:18 AM
    To: Chris Phillips; Jim Weber
    Cc: Gordon Banks; Therav3 AT aol.com
    Subject: C.P. Addition: Joan de Somerville, wife of Sir Ralph de Cromwell

    Dear Newsgroup ~

    The authoritative Complete Peerage 3 (1913): 551 (sub Cromwell) has a good account of the life history of Sir Ralph [de] Cromwell (died 1398), 1st Lord Cromwell, who married Maud [de] Bernake. In the record of Sir Ralph Cromwell's extended ancestry, it identifies his great-grandfather as follows, with no mention of his wife:

    "Ralph de Cromwell (died shortly before 2 March 1298/9)."

    The wife of Ralph de Cromwell (died 1299) can now be identified as Joan de Somerville, daughter of Sir Robert de Somerville (died 1297), of Wichnor (in Tatenhill), Yorkshire and Great Benton, Northumberland, by his wife, Isabel (died 1300), daughter and co-heiress of Roger de Merlay, Knt. (died 1265), of Morpeth, Northumberland and Burton Agnes, Yorkshire.

    The evidence for Joan de Somerville's identity and parentage is found in Rev. Stebbing Shaw, History and Antiquities of Staffordshire, 1 (1798): 119, which reads as follows:

    "Which Robert [de] Somerville, knt. lord of Whichnor, 21 Edward I. granted to Ralph de Cromwell, knt. in frank marriage with Joan, his daughter, 15l. rent in Schirescote and Curborowe, with all his land, etc. there, as will there more fully be shown."

    VCH Stafford 14 (1990): 278 provides additional confirmation:

    "An estate in Little Curborough centring on Curborough House originated in a virgate held in the later 13th Century by John de Somerville, lord of Wychnor in Tatenhill. John was succeeded in or shortly after 1279 by his son, Robert, and Robert in 1297 by his son, Edmund. [34] Edmund held the estate as 1/4 knight's fee of the bishop as lord of Longdon in 1298. By 1301 he was a clerk and claimed that he held no lay fee. [35] His father had apparently granted an interest in the estate to Sir Ralph de Cromwell on Ralph's marriage ro Edmund's aunt Joan in 1292-3 [36], and in the 1320's, after Edmund's death, the estate passed to Sir Ralph's son, also Ralph. [37] Ralph, Baron Cromwell, a descendant, still had an interest in the estate in 1442-3. [38].

    34. S.H.C. 1911, 172-3, 241.
    35. S.R.O., D. (W.) 1734/J. 2268, f. 1v.; S.H.C. vii (1) 81-2, 97.
    36. Shaw, Staffs. i. 119.
    37. S.H.C. ix (1), 75; S.R.O., D. (W.) 1734/J. 2268, f. 1v.; Complete
    Peerage, iii. 551n.
    38. Kent Archives Offices, U1475 M207.

    The above information in VCH Stafford is correct, except that Joan de Somerville, wife of Sir Ralph de Cromwell, was the sister of Edmund de Somerville, clerk, not his aunt.

    Joan de Somerville's extensive ancestry can be found on Jim Weber's great website at the link below. The ancestry includes an interesting descent from King Ethelred II of England.

    http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=jweber&id=I26670&style=TEXT

    Joan de Somerville's maternal great-grandmother was Ada, wife of Roger de Merlay (died 1239), who my files shows was the daughter of Duncan, 6th Earl of Fife in Scotland, by his wife, Ela, thought to have been a daughter of Reynold de Warenne.

    For interest's sake, the following is the list of the 17th Century New World immigrants who descend from Joan de Somerville, wife of Sir Ralph de Cromwell:

    l. William Bladen.

    2. Kenelm Cheseldine.

    3. Grace Chetwode.

    4. William Farrer.

    5. Muriel Gurdon.

    6. Anne & Katherine Marbury.

    7. Thomas Owsley.

    8. Richard Saltonstall.

    9. Mary Johanna Somerset

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

    Website: www.royalancestry.net




    Father: Robert SOMERVILLE , of Wychnor & Great Benton,Sir b: ABT 1240 in Wychnor, Burton-upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England
    Mother: Isabel de MERLAY b: BEF 1257 in Morpeth, Northumberland, England

    Marriage 1 Ralph III de CROMWELL & West Hallam b: ABT 1270 in Cromwell, Southwell, Nottinghamshire, England
    • Married: ABT 1292 in 1st husband 3
    Children
    1. Has Children Ralph IV de CROMWELL & West Hallam b: ABT 1292 in Cromwell, Southwell, Nottinghamshire, England

    Marriage 2 Henry 1st "Baron" de GREY , of Codnor, Sir b: ABT 1256 in Codnor, Basford, Derbyshire, England
    • Married: BEF 6 JUN 1301 in 2nd husband 2nd wife 4

    Sources:
    1. Title: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999
      Page: 1228
      Text: Joan (no surname or ancestry)
    2. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Douglas Richardson, 10 Nov 2005
    3. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
      Page: Douglas Richardson, 10 Nov 2005
      Text: 1292-3, citing VCH Stafford 14 (1990), p. 278
    4. Title: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999
      Page: 1228
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