The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I06326
  • Name: Elizabeth d' AVESNES , of Hainault 1 2 3 4
  • Sex: F
  • ALIA: Elizabeth of /Hainault/
  • Birth: ABT 1315 in Mons, Hainault, Belgium
  • Death: BEF 16 MAR 1372/73 5 6
  • Note:
    He [Robert de Holand] married Elizabeth, who appears to have predcceased him. He died 16 March 1372/3, at Halse or Hawes, Brackley, and was buried in St. James's Chapel, Brackley. [Complete Peerage VI:531, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

    ------------------------

    The following post to SGM, 12 Oct 2002, by Douglas Richardson tentatively identifies Elizabeth as an illegitimate sister of Philippe of Hainault (wife of King Edward III):

    From: Douglas Richardson (royalancestry AT msn.com)
    Subject: Elizabeth de Holand, bastard sister of Queen Philippe of Hainault
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2002-10-12 17:03:37 PST

    Dear Newsgroup ~

    Bert Kamp's recent post on the birth order of Queen Philippe of Hainault (wife of King Edward III) and her sisters brought to mind another question related to the comital Hainault family.

    In the course of my research for the forthcoming Plantagenet Ancestry book, I've encountered a grant dated 1367 whereby King Edward III of England, at the instance of his wife, Philippe, granted to her bastard sister, Elizabeth de Holand, twenty pounds of money annually at the Exchequer [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1367-1370 (published 1913), pg.]. To my knowledge, this sister of Queen Philippe is unknown in Hainault records and no one has attempted to identity her in English records either.

    Inasmuch as Queen Philippe's father, William, was Count of Hainault and Holand, Brice Clagett has suggested to me privately the possibility that Elizabeth de Holand obtained her surname from the locality of Holand on the Continent. However, it is also possible that she is identical with Elizabeth, wife of Robert de Holand, Knt., 2nd Lord Holand, of Thorpe Waterville, co. Northampton. Elizabeth, wife of Lord Holand, was married before 1343 and was evidently living at the time King Edward III made the grant to his wife's bastard sister. It is rather unusual that Lord Holand's wife's surname is not known, as in the normal scheme of things, his wife should have derived from one of England's better families and would be well documented in the records. If Lord Holand's wife was foreign born, however, it would explain her failure to appear as a daughter among the records of contemporary families of baronial rank.

    Robert de Holand, 2nd Lord Holand, and his wife, Elizabeth, had four identifiable sons, Robert, Thomas, Gilbert (clerk), and John, as well as one probable daughter, Margaret, wife of Marmaduke de Lumley. My research shows that on Marmaduke de Lumley's death, Queen Philippe acquired the marriage of his son and heir. If Marmaduke de Lumley's wife, Margaret, was Queen Philippe's niece, then it would explain Queen Philippe's interest in the Lumley family.

    Perhaps Bert could comment on the likelihood that Queen Philippe's bastard sister was known as "de Holand" due to her father being Count of Hainault and Holand. Also, I'm aware that Queen Philippe had several illegitimate brothers which appear in Hainault records. Perhaps Bert could list them for us. Several American immigrants descend from Elizabeth, wife of Lord Holand. So, if this matter could be resolved, it might open up much new ancestry for many people here on the newsgroup.

    Beyond Queen Philippe's sister, Elizabeth de Holand, it appears Queen Philippe also had another kinswoman with her in England who married a member of the Louth family of Huntingdonshire. However, unlike the exact reference to Elizabeth de Holand, it is unclear how the Louth woman was related to Queen Philippe. More than likely one could identity the Louth woman by examining the names of Queen Philippe's damsels, as the Louth woman was presumably brought to England as a damsel to Queen Philippe. I know of one American immigrant who descends from the Louth family.

    Lastly, sometime ago, a thread was generated regarding people's favorite Queen in English history. My vote goes to Queen Philippe of Hainault. She was the epitome of all that embodies a woman of state, family, and virtue.

    Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah




    Father: William III d' AVESNES , Count of Hainault b: ABT 1286 in Avesnes, Artois/Pas-de-Calais, France
    Mother: Unknown MISTRESS b: ABT 1295

    Marriage 1 Robert IV 2nd Baron de HOLAND , Sir b: ABT 1312 in Thorpe Waterville, Thrapston, Northamptonshire, England
      Children
      1. Has Children Robert V de HOLAND , of Thorpe Waterville, Sir b: ABT 1334 in Thorpe Waterville, Thrapston, Northamptonshire, England
      2. Has Children Margaret de HOLAND b: ABT 1340 in Hawes, Brackley, Northamptonshire, England
      3. Has Children Jane HOLAND b: ABT 1345 in Hawes, Brackley, Northamptonshire, England

      Sources:
      1. Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999
        Page: 47a-31
        Text: Elizabeth (no last name)
      2. Title: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999
        Page: 3100
        Text: Elizabeth (no last name)
      3. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: VI:531
        Text: Elizabeth (no last name)
      4. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
        Page: Douglas Richardson, 12 Oct 2002
        Text: identifies ancestry of Elizabeth
      5. Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999
        Page: 47a-31
        Text: before husband
      6. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: VI:531
        Text: before husband.
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