The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I04750
  • Name: Reginald (Renaud) FITZURSE , of Haworth & Bulwick 1 2
  • Sex: M
  • Birth: ABT 1135 in Haworth Castle, Yorkshire, England
  • Death: AFT 1170 in Bulwick, Oundle, Northamptonshire, England 3
  • Note:
    CP has Reginald as brother of Mabel and Margaret/Margery, while John Ravilious, merging CP's pedigree with Paget's 'Baronage mss.", follows Paget in making Mabel & Margaret/Margery daughters of Reginald. He cites certain lands that descended from Ralph de Limesi to Viel d'Engaine to support Paget over CP.

    ------------------------

    Below are two posts to SGM. The first, on 22 Dec 2002 by John Ravilious, identifies Reginald as one of the murderers of Thomas a-Becket. The second, on 19 Jul 1997 by Bill Barham, gives some additional information on the murderers, and what subsequently happened to the FItzUrse family:

    From: Therav3 AT aol.com (Therav3 AT aol.com)
    Subject: Re: Robert de Courtenay, kinsman of Queen Isabel of Angouleme
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2002-12-22 21:43:26 PST

    Sunday, 22 December, 2002

    Dear Douglas,

    I believe the Robert de Courtenay you have identified is otherwise known as Robert de Courtenay, husband (possibly 1stly) of Maud FitzUrse, daughter and heiress of the infamous Renaud FitzUrse of Bulwick, co. Northants [one of the murderers of Thomas Becket, Archbp. of Canterbury]. I am not aware of further details of the career of this Robert de Courtenay, or of other marriages, but this identification (if correct) would yield the relationship to Isabel of Angouleme outlined below.

    - - - - - -

    From: Bill Barham (billmail AT clark.net)
    Subject: Firtz-Urse/McMahon
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 1997/07/19

    On December 29, 1170, William de Tracy, Hugh de Morviille, Richard le Breton and Reginald FITZ-URSE, Knights in the court of Henry II, left the court in Normandy, crossed the Channel and slayed Thomas "a" Becket.

    Reginald Fitz-Urse was the brother of Richard Fitz-Urse who supposedly was the progenitor of the BARHAM family in England. After the slaying of Becket, the surname FITZ-URSE was dropped and the family took the surname BARHAM after the place where they dwelled, either out of shame or becuase the surname FITZ-URSE was banned as punishment after Henry II claimed he knew knothing of the plot. No punishment came to the relatives evidently because the lands near Canterbury stayed in the family but the name DID change to de BEREHAM.

    Reginald FITZ-URSE, as legend has it, fled England and became the head of the MacMahon Clan in Scotland. The only reason I can see for this is the similiarity in names. FITZ-URSE meaning "son of a bear" and MacMahon meaning the same. Does anyone have any knowledge of any of this???

    Thank You, Bill Barham




    Father: Richard FITZURSE , of Bulwick b: ABT 1100 in Bulwick, Oundle, Northamptonshire, England
    Mother: Maud de BOULERS b: ABT 1105 in Haworth Castle, Yorkshire, England

    Marriage 1 Beatrice de LIMESI b: ABT 1145 in Pirton, Hitchin, Hertfordshire, England
      Children
      1. Has Children Mabel FITZURSE b: ABT 1165 in Haworth Castle, Yorkshire, England

      Sources:
      1. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
        Page: John Ravilious (therav3), 13 May 2002
        Text: Reginald FitzUrse
      2. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: V:72 chart
        Text: Renaud FitzUrse
      3. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000
        Page: V:72 chart
        Text: held Bulwick in 1170, could have died much later
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