The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest

Entries: 46457    Updated: 2015-06-11 05:23:07 UTC (Thu)    Owner: Jim Weber

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  • ID: I01195
  • Name: Agatha de FERRERS 1
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: ABT 1169 in Tutbury, Burton-on-Trent, Staffordshire, England
  • Note:
    I used to have Agatha de Ferrers as mistress of John, and mother of Joan. She may still be a mistress of John, but apparently not a mother of Joan, as the post to SGM, 16 Nov 2001, by William Addams Reitwiesner, indicates:

    From: William Addams Reitwiesner (reitwiesner AT
    Subject: Re: Joan of Wales
    Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
    Date: 2001-11-16 02:08:01 PST

    WOOD_CE AT MSN.COM (CE Wood) wrote:

    >I posted this in reply to Douglas' original post, but never got an
    >answer when things devolved into naming.
    >Can someone help me, please?
    >I have this in my notes of Joan, and wonder if it is outdated:
    >"One source for the speculation that Agatha Ferrers was Joan's mother
    >is Sir William Dugdale, in The Baronage of England (1675-6). He states
    >his source to be Dr David Powel's History of Wales (1584). Powel's
    >work is an enlarged edition of H Lhoyd's translation of The Historie
    >of Cambria by the twelfth century Saint Caradoc of Llancarfan."
    >Is Clemence now regarded as Joan's mother, rather than Agatha?


    The identity of Joan's mother is unknown. Agatha Ferrers is a nice guess, but is unsupported by contemporary evidence. The only time Joan's mother is mentioned by name is in the Tewkesbury Annals, where she is called "Queen Clementia". Is this a different name for Agatha Ferrers? Possibly, but not likely.

    Should you take "Agatha Ferrers" out of your charts? Probably. What I would do is replace her with "Clementia, otherwise unidentified", and include a large footnote with all of the speculative identities for her, including Agatha Ferrers. Doug Richardson, taking "Clementia" as a name and not an epithet, has come up with some plausible, but not conclusive, evidence of who she might be (see other recent threads in this group).

    If you want a definitive answer for who Joan's mother was, I don't think you'll get one any time soon.

    Father: William de FERRERS , 3rd Earl of Derby b: ABT 1140 in Tutbury, Burton-on-Trent, Staffordshire, England
    Mother: Sybil de BRAOSE b: ABT 1150 in Bramber, Sussex, England

    Marriage 1 John I "Lackland" Plantagenet King of ENGLAND b: 24 DEC 1166 in Kings Manor House, Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
    • Married: in No Marriage
    1. Has Children Isabel FITZROY b: ABT 1186

    1. Title: Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups -
      Page: William Addams Reitwiesner, 16 Nov 2001
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